[Cody Banks]

Hey Duke, Im enjoying the way the archery is now. One minor issue: after putting down the case, activating it, putting in arrows, and picking up the case again, i couldnt shoot any arrows (the game shows i have no arrows equipped. but if i equip my remaining arrows in the inventory (those not in the case), say 50, the game would show me as having only 20 arrows (the number in the case). if i shoot like this, all my equipped arrows (50) would get dropped. on the other hand, if i unequip the 50 arrows, the game would show me as having no shootable (equipped) arrows again.

In short, i cant seem to use the arrows in the case without equipping my other arrows (which get dropped the moment i shoot).

Regarding the plan to make aiming the crosshair at the case reload your arrows, i think that's an excellent idea. Perhaps a few seconds of uninterrupted aiming at the case to simulate taking the arrows out? Or x number of arrows per second of aiming the crosshair at the case until the limit is reached?

Keep up the great work!

-Norbingel

[Laura Mclean]

Hey Duke, Im enjoying the way the archery is now. One minor issue: after putting down the case, activating it, putting in arrows, and picking up the case again, i couldnt shoot any arrows (the game shows i have no arrows equipped. but if i equip my remaining arrows in the inventory (those not in the case), say 50, the game would show me as having only 20 arrows (the number in the case). if i shoot like this, all my equipped arrows (50) would get dropped. on the other hand, if i unequip the 50 arrows, the game would show me as having no shootable (equipped) arrows again.

In short, i cant seem to use the arrows in the case without equipping my other arrows (which get dropped the moment i shoot).

Regarding the plan to make aiming the crosshair at the case reload your arrows, i think that's an excellent idea. Perhaps a few seconds of uninterrupted aiming at the case to simulate taking the arrows out? Or x number of arrows per second of aiming the crosshair at the case until the limit is reached?

Keep up the great work!

-Norbingel

From the way you describe it thats the way this new version is supposed to work, the case (imagine putting another case inside your backpack (your inventory)).

Arrows you can select as normal in your inventory (simulated quiver), are now restricted by default to 20 (this can be changed in Combat Archery .ini file), if you have more in your inventory/quiver than the setting in the .ini (say 25) when you try to draw an arrow from your quiver the 5 excess will drop to the floor, simulating you having an over-stuffed quiver and pulling one out pulls more out because they are tightly packed together, and so they drop on the floor.

The case, can have many more than your inventory, but logistically you have to think about re-supplying your quiver/inventory, during the heat of a battle you would just grab, which is why spooky decided to have a random selection when you try to get arrows from a dropped case. Initially I wasn't keen on the idea in case I randomly pulled out specialised enchanted arrows being saved for when required but if I had to resort to desperately grabbing arrows in the heat of things that would happen RL, so I have warmed to the idea. I just hope looking at the case to grab some arrows is not delayed sometimes ( like trying to get the scripts to recognise arrows with {} ), a delay there could be costly if its a desparate situation.

Current version 2.4 is buggy, spooky is resolving that now so probably best to wait for the next release which by the sound of it will be excellent, I un-installed 2.4 yesterday in anticipation of a new version coming (clean save routine in readyness for installing the new) - Feels like I have gone cold turkey , cant play without it, it makes such a difference. But give the man time for a pint (hopefully that wont be detrimental to the bug fixing lol).

[Jaylene Brower]

There will be a little delay on this as I want the critical working as best I can at least for now.

But I am not doing anything else today until this is done.

Because of the recent issues I am having I will not have the "quick grab" in the upcoming release.
My Quick Grab "idea" has some complicated issues to make it work as intended, and I am starting to get a lot of complicate scripts in this mod which is unnerving to say the least. Ask Skycaptin about that kind of thing getting in the way of a great idea for a mod! And he is 100 times a better coder than I am. So it may not come about at all but I will see about this next week.

[BEl J]

Right, if you put more than 20 in your quiver (or what ever your limit is set in the INI) arrows will fall to the ground.

You must transfer arrows form the case to your innovatory then equip them. This is NOT intended to be a convenient process as you are being discourage from doing this in combat or really AT ALL because the idea is you should really only have 20 arrow total in your quiver and NONE in your "back pack". But because the player can carry 12 war hammers I decide not to "cold stop" the player preventing them from transporting 100 arrows especially as this is NOT an encumbrance mod. Grabbing arrows from the dead and off the ground in combat will be a good tactic now as well!

From the way you describe it thats the way this new version is supposed to work, the case (imagine putting another case inside your backpack (your inventory)).

Arrows you can select as normal in your inventory (simulated quiver), are now restricted by default to 20 (this can be changed in Combat Archery .ini file), if you have more in your inventory/quiver than the setting in the .ini (say 25) when you try to draw an arrow from your quiver the 5 excess will drop to the floor, simulating you having an over-stuffed quiver and pulling one out pulls more out because they are tightly packed together, and so they drop on the floor.

The case, can have many more than your inventory, but logistically you have to think about re-supplying your quiver/inventory, during the heat of a battle you would just grab, which is why spooky decided to have a random selection when you try to get arrows from a dropped case. Initially I wasn't keen on the idea in case I randomly pulled out specialised enchanted arrows being saved for when required but if I had to resort to desperately grabbing arrows in the heat of things that would happen RL, so I have warmed to the idea. I just hope looking at the case to grab some arrows is not delayed sometimes ( like trying to get the scripts to recognise arrows with {} ), a delay there could be costly if its a desparate situation.

Current version 2.4 is buggy, spooky is resolving that now so probably best to wait for the next release which by the sound of it will be excellent, I un-installed 2.4 yesterday in anticipation of a new version coming (clean save routine in readyness for installing the new) - Feels like I have gone cold turkey , cant play without it, it makes such a difference. But give the man time for a pint (hopefully that wont be detrimental to the bug fixing lol).

[Melung Chan]

Duke Patrick's Combat Archery Mod Version 2.5

get it here:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29831


2.5 Bug fixes for the Arrow Case Weight, player character will say things like "That had to hurt!' when they land a critical hit on their opponent. And a bobbing bow away effect that visually tells you when momentum is no longer effecting your shot after moving or jumping.

This effect will not bob you cross hair while you are jumping or running but will after you stop, this simulates regaining stability by forcing your momentum to zero. It is a necessary game mechanic so the player has feedback about their momentum penalty, but it is optional.

I also tried the effect WHILE running and jumping and I can see how many players would hate that, but it is more realistic to have the bow sway during the movement so I may make this an option in later revisions.


DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL ALL THE FILES!

[jesse villaneda]

It's a fantastic MOD which really makes you want to play with bows. :goodjob:

About the quiver I really like the idea but I'm not too found of the implementation. I feel it should be the other way around. You can only use/shoot what's put in it.
The way it is set you have to do the operation everytime you come across an arrow. And each time you put arrows in the quiver you have to re-equip your arrows. Plus you can't do the whole operation in sneak mode. I understand it would certainly be too complicated to do it the other way around and that it's an optional feature, but just giving my feelings about it.
Also I understand the whole quiver/container is to simulate a real time action to get around that stupid froze time inventory menu, but have you thought about triggering a player anim once out of the inventory instead? Forcing an anim (generic use idle anim) would simulate that action takes time and could open other leads.

Otherwise I experience a problem with the endurance consumption when drawing a bow, there isn't any. I can stay all day long with the string pulled without any fatigue effect.
When i installed Your Archery mod, i was testing different mods to BAIN them before a clean install.
So I had Oblivion XP installed, but Archery was BOSSed and loaded last except for Streamline.
Des-installed Oblivion XP, no change. Installed nGCD loaded before Archery no change, installed Extended Game Mechanics aswell to try it, configured the ini so it let your mod handle the bow endurance part still no change.
The Combat Archery INI is set to default .005.
The characters were fresh made, played with rusty and iron bows and got a daedric bow via console to check but no matter what, my endurance refuses to drop when drawing a bow.

[JD FROM HELL]

Er...sorry, but that makes no sense to me. Only shoot arrows that are in the case? Not arrows that are equipped? Anyway it is optional, so please do not use it if you don't like it. No reason to suffer thur it when it is an optional feature, and I make some like this optional so I do not have to waste a lot of time on them (as long as it is realistic and they are not buggy) so I can go on to other more important things. However you may be right about the sneak situation. My original idea was that this would not be a quite operation and thus not something you could stay hidden while doing. But I am reconsidering that. I may add a grab button trigger to this that will work as well as the crouch action trigger.

About the quiver I really like the idea but I'm not too found of the implementation. I feel it should be the other way around. You can only use/shoot what's put in it.

The endurance drop is very slight, so depending on other factors such as your strength and what your fatigue regeneration game setting is set to you may not see it unless you do other things such as run or jump. I have often considered forcing the fatigue regeneration to my standard to avoid this kind of incompatibly but I am worried that would interfere too much with Melee combat mods that in my opinion should be the only mod to affect combat related fatigue regeneration. Fatigue is to combat what Magicka is to spell casting. You would not want a magic mod to force set your fatigue regeneration game setting just so they could fine tweak their fatigue consumption for casting a spell now would you? However I am not satisfied with how it is now. That is why I was thinking of allowing the player to set the consumption rate in the INI file. But that will sometimes mean you must change it each time your PC adds or removes bonus for fatigue regeneration. So I am not sure yet what to do about this except keep it as it is. Which is that sometimes (depending on your game) it will not show in the game unless you are doing other fatigue draining activities.

One Idea I discarded, but would go ahead and use if players prefer it is to use a timer, each say 10 seconds a heavy hit is applied to the fatigue. This will mean sudden jumps in the fatigue drain rather than a nice smooth drain however.

I experience a problem with the endurance consumption when drawing a bow, there isn't any. I can stay all day long with the string pulled without any fatigue effect.

[Scared humanity]

I like the fatigue drain the way it is now, and I find it is nicely balanced. Gave me a reason to hotkey a restore fatigue spell.

Only problem I have is that sometimes when I hold it too long and lose the arrow (when my fatigue runs out) my character bounces around like a ping pong ball in small spaces, or goes flying forward a great distance if near larger spaces. I don't know why, so I'm assuming it's a mod interaction.

[jessica Villacis]

I'm ok with the fatigue too. I've never ping ponged though. I have seen it where there are times when I can hold the bow drawn for what seems like forever and other times the drain is fast and sharp. I think it is an interaction with realistic fatigue and how fatigue 'buoyancy' is tied to health.

I think what OLGfr meant was - what about the idea of making it so that you can only equip (in your normal inventory) a set amount of arrows (as per ini) and that the rest of the arrows are contained in another container in your inventory. I know there are plenty of mods that add containers to inventory so that you click on it and it opens up. You could then make it so that it is only openable while out of your inventory or simply make it so that it cannot be opened while in combat.

I'm not sure if limiting the number of arrows able to be be equipped in the normal inventory is possible, but if it is then I'm sure thee would also be requests for say no more than 30 arrows equippable and those could be spread out over several different arrow types that you would change as per normal selection in inventory.

Anyway that is me just thinking out what he wrote - I've yet to try the feature out yet and will, hopefully, tonight. Don't read this as a plea to make it that way, just suggestions.

Oh yeah and anyone who wants to make this experience even more difficult there is http://wryemusings.com/Combat%20Fumbling.html (the only combat mod by Wrye that I know of) to check out as well.

[Matt Gammond]

Most of what you suggested is the way it is set up. I would agree that I would like it if the limit on the arrows applied to the total number of arrows in your inventory, and not just the equipped ones, but doing this would be difficult because if the number of loose arrows in your inventory exceeded the limit, there would be no way to know which ones were "meant to be in the quiver" and which ones are "loose in your backpack" and therefore vulnerable to breakage.

Not without getting very, very complicated at any rate, I would think.

[Invasion's]

There are other reasons as well but you peg-ed one of the big ones.

Funny, if I just cold stop the player from carrying more than 20 arrows entirely (and avoided all the devils in the details of an immersive penalty system)
most players would think nothing of it and accept it as logical game play.

OBSE has made so much possible that now players kinda feel anything can be (practically with only a little effort) done. Do not get me wrong, I do like hearing the feedback, once in a while there is a Jewel of an idea. Just please understand that much of the time there are limitations on what can be done in one lifetime.

That said I am not entirely happy with the way it (the arrow limit feature) is working now, but I want to look to refining it not throwing hours of work out and trying to start a new one.

Most of what you suggested is the way it is set up. I would agree that I would like it if the limit on the arrows applied to the total number of arrows in your inventory, and not just the equipped ones, but doing this would be difficult because if the number of loose arrows in your inventory exceeded the limit, there would be no way to know which ones were "meant to be in the quiver" and which ones are "loose in your backpack" and therefore vulnerable to breakage.

Not without getting very, very complicated at any rate, I would think.

[Killah Bee]

You mean your PC flies thru the air?
wow that is some issue, I cannot think of what in the world could even do this except for a push actor command.

Fatigue and marksman is the only thing my Archery mods affect while the bow is pulled. Anything thing else (in my mod, such as my bow bumping from being too close to and actor) would need another actor to be close to you. Do you have a mod that has an invisible actor near you, there is a Music mod (better music I think is is called) that does this! Which can lead to a lot of problems which is why I stopped doing that when OBSE allowed me to stop doing that (close by invisible actors) for my actors can mis mod.

I like the fatigue drain the way it is now, and I find it is nicely balanced. Gave me a reason to hotkey a restore fatigue spell.

Only problem I have is that sometimes when I hold it too long and lose the arrow (when my fatigue runs out) my character bounces around like a ping pong ball in small spaces, or goes flying forward a great distance if near larger spaces. I don't know why, so I'm assuming it's a mod interaction.

[Ross]

I'm gonna get a video of it some day. It's actually hilarious when it happens (which seems to be only in confined spaces). I'm betting it's some weird result of Realistic Physics and Force, maybe interacting with the skeleton from "3rd Person animations in 1st person view".

The only time it really got annoying was in an amazon cave where I was sneaking down to the mouth of a tunnel for a good snipe at one of the Amazons who had wandered off by herself. I didn't watch my fatigue and ended up collapsing right at then end of the tunnel where the cave opened up and the result was that my character got tossed about sixty feet forward and came to a stop right smack in the middle of about eight Amazons. So then I died and reloaded. No way was I surviving that.

I kinda wish I could have the video running all the time, or that Oblivion had replay capability, because I had an awesome moment the other night. I was chasing a Spider Daedra away from an Oblivion Gate and when I caught up she had made it to a Fort a short distance away. As I approached, I realized that she was dead and started looking around for what killed her....I had just spotted the top of a Skeleton Hero archer over a large rock and was looking right at him when...WAAM!!! Took a Dwemer Arrow right smack in the sternum. The shot took my health down by two thirds, but it also knocked my character ass over teakettle straight backwards....and the camera jumped straight back out of her because I had been stunned. The effect was awesome...it looked like the arrow had hit the camera and knocked it out of my body, and now I was having an out of body experience looking down at my poor character flying backwards to land in a heap.

Fortunately the same rock that had mostly shielded the Skeleton Hero from my view was now shielding me from his bow, so I was able to get up, switch to my sword and shield and quaff a healing potion. Then I charged, timed a jump off the rock just right to have his next shot go under me, got my shield in place well timed to deflect his third shot and by then I was in range to got to town on him with my sword. He never had a chance once I had closed the distance.

Moments like that are why I put up with the leftover elements of the vanilla game.

[Imy Davies]

oo:

So %^$$ cool!!!!! You are a great warrior! You overcame a bad situation stacked against you with a brave bold (and yet realistic) move.

Whaaaaaa......I want to play the game! :cold: But I have no new quests left.

What about that German quest mod Adash - City of Magic , is it playable even with out the full translation of the maps and video?

Hey what mod was the Amazons from?
Did he miss the shot because of my actors can miss mod (if you jump, fall or run it makes it a little harder for the actor to hit you) or because he fired before you jumped?


BTW soon you will see games that are made to record the action for playback (showing off) on you tube. Kind of a built in FPS.

----Big SNIP----

Moments like that are why I put up with the leftover elements of the vanilla game.

[Ann Church]

Hey what mod was the Amazons from?
Did he miss the shot because of my actors can miss mod (if you jump, fall or run it makes it a little harder for the actor to hit you) or because he fired before you jumped?

Those particular Amazons were from OOO (you can tell because some of them are half nekkid), but Mart's Monster Mod has some as well.

The missed shot was mostly luck, honestly. The NPCs will draw their bow and wait for you to poke your head out before they fire. So he was waiting for me to reappear, and I decided to charge right over the rock that was separating us, so I jumped up onto the rock and then jumped again to get off of it. My second jump and his release must have happened at pretty much the same moment, so he couldn't correct. The third arrow I managed to block was good timing though. If you keep your shield up while you charge, they'll hold their shot till you get close, and then shoot under your shield. You've gotta give them a tempting target and then guess when they release (or catch a subtle movement). Then if you get your shield up you'll deflect it completely.

I'd love to see more games with the replay ability. Most racing games can already do it, but it seems that very few FPS style games will give up the processing power needed to do it.

Would be cool if FRAPS could be made to run only on the second core of your computer (so it would minimize effect on the game) and loop the same ten minutes over and over. But still way too much overhead for most people, I'd think.

[Luna Lovegood]

Guess I have been lucky so far as I do have MMM but not seen any Amazons. Just saw a Nightmare last night while testing my mod. Wow that startled the hell out of me! I did not know thy were in MMM. I was like "WHAT the heck is that!!!!" and got all nervous as I did not have experience fighting one before.
Hee heee.... wish it had been in a game not a mod testing session.

So you got all the little nuances of my combat archery mod (under the shield, deflect arrows, etcetera) down fairly well.
You may be better at the combat archery than I am now, as I am still only a 50 (or 60 not sure off hand) marksman and have not had much game time other than testing.

I made my prediction based on some articles I read about how graphics have almost gotten about as far as is needed for games but PC power still is getting better so the games companies may start working on other things such as the AI now.


edit: downloading City of magic now...your great combat story made me want to play....

Those particular Amazons were from OOO (you can tell because some of them are half nekkid), but Mart's Monster Mod has some as well.

third arrow I managed to block was good timing though. If you keep your shield up while you charge, they'll hold their shot till you get close, and then shoot under your shield. You've gotta give them a tempting target and then guess when they release (or catch a subtle movement). Then if you get your shield up you'll deflect it completely.

I'd love to see more games with the replay ability. Most racing games can already do it, but it seems that very few FPS style games will give up the processing power needed to do it.

Would be cool if FRAPS could be made to run only on the second core of your computer (so it would minimize effect on the game) and loop the same ten minutes over and over. But still way too much overhead for most people, I'd think.

[(G-yen)]

I made this change and will test while playing City of magic.

if all goes well I will upload late tonight or tomorrow.


New action trigger to put the arrow case into your inventory:

Use the grab action (hold the grab button) as you tap the activate button to put the arrow case into inventory. Crouching has no effect anymore. However the arrow case is automatically put into you inventory after you close the container menu for the arrow case. So you do not need to pick it up manually after transferring arrows from the case to your quiver.

[Emily abigail Villarreal]

Would it be hard to code it so that after you close your case it checks to see if you have any arrows equipped, and if you don't it equips the first stack it finds? Make it an optional feature.

I lost almost a full stack of good arrows earlier because after I sorted my arrows and kept the twenty I wanted, I forgot to actually equip them and then got in several sword fights.

By the way, does the strength of a hit on you affect the odds of the arrows breaking? It seemed like that ogre broke a lot of them when he put that pounding on me.

[Cash n Class]

Auto equipping arrows would not work for some people. And I want to avoid too much in the INI file. But for just that reason I was thinking about giving a "grace" of not breaking up to 20 arrows in your inventory IF you have none equipped. Let me think about it. This is really the players own fault but I also understand that there is only so much you can keep track of in your head in combat (about 7 things at once).

Would it be hard to code it so that after you close your case it checks to see if you have any arrows equipped, and if you don't it equips the first stack it finds? Make it an optional feature.

No it is random right now. I wanted to link it to something other than "random" but there was no practical way to detect the "amount" of force used to make the player fall to the ground or get staggered. It could be from a man with a good sword shot, falling from a ledge, an Ogre two fist pounding or just falling down by tripping over a dead body. All of which would very a great deal in force but with no way to detect even "most" possibilities. However EACH time you fall down you chance arrows breaking. So an Ogre that can stagger you more often than a man with a sword will do a lot more arrow breaking! So in a way it is only semi random.

By the way, does the strength of a hit on you affect the odds of the arrows breaking? It seemed like that ogre broke a lot of them when he put that pounding on me.

[Horse gal smithe]

Hi Spooky, I've not had much play time so far with your new archery mod but you've really outdone yourself with it. It's really captures what it must be like trying to shoot a bow. When I tripped going up steps and heard the sound of things breaking (I'd forgotten about that aspect of the mod) I thought uh oh, I must admit I did laugh when I heard that sound. I ended up having to lead this archer into guards so I could loot her arrows then I was lot more carefull. My character is a real weakling at the moment who can't take on anyone wielding anything more than a dagger.
I also occasionally get the ping pong effect that Showler mentioned.

Also Psymon I tried that combat fumbling mod for a while but stopped because it spoiled the surpise of not knowing if someone was stalking you or not, when you go into your inventory and exit you get the effect of paralysis, I think it was, letting you know something was after you.

[krystal sowten]

Katnap-

Oh I guess that would kind of spoil it. I already have a similar spoiler with Kuertee's no looting during combat - which happens to be the time when you are likely to be ambushed - after killing who you thought was alone.

Duke-

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around why you haven't tried any of the major overhauls like OOO or Frans or FCOM. OOO/FCOM addresses so much of the game content that it feels like a whole other game at times. I've been on a kick of knocking out quest mods lately and have finished about 5-6 recently, but sometimes none of them compare to just adventuring with FCOM. The challenge is there and it gives content that is challenging to very high levels.

Or an even simpler overhaul with TIE that changes many things about the game world but more for stealth play. These overhauls work with your mods - provided that yours load last - as you know.

Instead of looking for new quests maybe the thing is to try new ways to make the same quests challenging. That said I highly recommend Integration by bg2408 and Kragenir Death Quest.

[Naughty not Nice]

mmmm... well, I might do that but only if there were not other games to play such as Borderlands that I just finished a week ago. Seems like life is to short to replay quests unless I have to for some reason.


I forgot I had Kragenir Death Quest on my desk top. I noticed it while loading the magic city. Thanks again for telling me about Kragenir Death Quest.

what is Integration by bg2408 ? If it is not a quest or a dungeon mod (if it is a game mechanic mod) I am not interested in it at this time. Half of all the mods i use are MMM and my own game mechanic mods. Like someone once said in describing me and my 50 plus Duke Patrick mods: "He sure knows what he wants in a video game."

But I am not that unusual, many other modder do the same thing like Reneer of Guard overhaul fame. He has about 4 mods in his game 2 his own (or something like that) according to a statement he made when asked what mods he had running for his own personal game.

Instead of looking for new quests maybe the thing is to try new ways to make the same quests challenging.

That said I highly recommend Integration by bg2408 and Kragenir Death Quest.

[Jennifer May]

Just finished the quick grab feature.

Now if you have NO arrows equipped, and your arrow case is on the ground AND it has arrows in it, and you put your cross-hair on it WHILE you are in combat, you will hear yourself grabbing arrows, after a few seconds you will restock your quiver with a random selected arrow set from out of your arrow case.

This is to simulate have an open arrow case on the ground and grabbing arrows in the-heat of battle. This was an actual tactic used by archers but normally only if they had some kind of protection such as other fighters protecting them. But a clever player may find other ways to utilize this.

[lolli]

mmmm... well, I might do that but only if there were not other games to play such as Borderlands that I just finished a week ago. Seems like life is to short to replay quests unless I have to for some reason.


I forgot I had Kragenir Death Quest on my desk top. I noticed it while loading the magic city. Thanks again for telling me about Kragenir Death Quest.

what is Integration by bg2408 ? If it is not a quest or a dungeon mod (if it is a game mechanic mod) I am not interested in it at this time. Half of all the mods i use are MMM and my own game mechanic mods. Like someone once said in describing me and my 50 plus Duke Patrick mods: "He sure knows what he wants in a video game."

But I am not that unusual, many other modder do the same thing like Reneer of Guard overhaul fame. He has about 4 mods in his game 2 his own (or something like that) according to a statement he made when asked what mods he had running for his own personal game.

http://theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=349 by bg2408 does have requirements which some find off putting. It requires SI and bg's other two big mods http://www.theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=215 and http://theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=219. ... I'm not sure if it requires Wrye Bash, but they would all probably work better with it.

Integration is a multi-branching quest mod that seeks to tie together much lore from race mods, previous games, and other general TES lore. It is unlike most mods in that there are not that many quest markers, but it gives you some quests that direct missions and some that are oblique easter eggs. With you you have reason to go to SI and back several times and it has hidden in it an epic quest. Some of the quests and stages have multiple resolutions and approaches. In a sense it is the truest form of Role Playing mod I can think of. Things like stat and skill checks and progress in vanilla quests are sometimes used as requirements for its quests.

Also - very much recommend the new http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21856. Adds a giant fort where you join the legion and travel around the county side to rebuild forts and guard towers and such - which is all the more fun with an overhaul that makes doing so a bit more challenging (not that MMM isn't).

Also I was impressed by http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22828. But not at all impressed by older mods like Tears of the Fiend and Naked Nord.

[Nichola Haynes]

OK, well I tired to do it my way and it started to get complicated once i got into the details.

So I am going with showler's suggestion and auto equipping the arrows on the player IF they have no arrows equipped and IF they would otherwise break the arrows in a stagger or fall AND IF THEY HAVE EQUAL OR LESS THAN their chosen arrow limit of said type in their normal inventory.

So if you have over your limit in inventory (of one type of arrow) then you will not get the "player's grace save".

If you have any arrows equipped then you will not get the "player's grace save".

For example if you have a limit of 20, and you have no arrows equipped, and you have 21 steel arrows and 25 iron arrows in your normal inventory you will get broken arrows no grace.


But if you have no arrows equipped, and you have 21 steel arrows and 5 iron arrows in your normal inventory 5 iron arrows will be auto equipped.

But if you have no arrows equipped, and you have 20 steel arrows and 5 iron arrows in your normal inventory 20 steel arrows will be auto equipped OR the 5 iron will be auto equipped depending on where the script find them in the program's inventory list. So basically call this "at random".

This was the simplest way to do this "player grace save". So that is how I did it. :shrug:

This will not be an option, as I will assume that ANY player would rather have some arrows auto equipped instead of broken just because they forgot to equip them after going thru the effort of transferring them from the arrow case.

So all the new stuff will be uploaded late tomorrow after I play with it in my own game, I still have not play tonight...