Now I am not sure.... although obviously I hope it's simply to make it more streamlined and to make more sense

There are elements that could be described as simply streamlining it to make more sense:
- Mysticism for example has been removed but the spells have simply been placed into other schools
- Hand to Hand has been removed as a skill although you will probably still be able to use your hands in combat it just won't contribute to leveling up, I personally don't mind as never use bare hands anyway

There are elements that could be considered dumbing down for example:
- Fast travel in Oblivion was to over the top - maybe this will be sorted for Skyrim
- Map markers which guide you to quest points too easily - with no HUD this time round maybe it will be sorted, otherwise dumbing down
- Less skills each and every game
- Dungeon lock to the level when you first enter them making it so you can go back at a later date and easily kill everything

I am however unsure on
- Attributes have been removed, not sure about this until more gameplay info is released
- Star Signs have been removed, I personally liked star signs and am disappointed about this
- Level scalling in general will it work better than Oblivion

On yet another level Bethesda are adding more detail to the game such as
- Different wanted level depending on where you are
- 13 types of ore - Just how many types of weapons and armour are there going to be?
- Perks which will probably negate losing attributes and having less skills as the skill there are will be more detailed

We have heard so little info and yet my head is already going to explode.... I just can't handle the anticipation

I think overall from what I have heard so far Bethesda seem to be making the best game yet and are making alot of right decisions, I'm just curious as to what other people think?

Man love for Todd Howard :hugs:

Skyrim is going in a different direction and it's neither Dumbing down or streamlining.

I'm unsure. I'd say there is a decent split between dumbing down and streamlining.

I prefer the term "optimizing." Removing redundant junk to make the game as good as possible.

To be honest, I have heard the words "streamlined" and "dumbed down" so many times on these forums (mostly from people who are either afraid of change or are completely over reacting) that I no longer know what they mean. Fast Travelling and map markers are things I can bear because I don't have to use them. Taking down the number of skills and attributes I can also bear because I found some of them quite irritating but that just my opinion.

On the whole I absolutely love what Bethesda seem to be doing and I'm 100% happy with all the changes being made but I'll reserve judgement for when I play the game.

I like to call it "refining".

Level locking is not dumbing down. Level locking is to ensure that when you enter a cave and find mauraders with iron armor, you won't be able to go back there later and find mauraders with daedric armor. It's a consistency feature that's meant to make level scaling less noticeable, not a way to make the game easier.

I'll be calling morons "streamlined people" from now on. Can't call them dumb now can I? :shrug:

Still, no matter how dumbed down the game is, I will still like it.

Stop.

This bs about "dumbing down" is already f'ng old.

Until they pull a Dragon Age 2, I don't have many doubts about the direction of Bethesda's games. They've removed some things but added others. Now when we get to TES6 and there are only ten skills, then I'll be worried.

Oh no, it's that time of the month again? Must we always have to talk about this, even though it NEVER, EVER gets anywhere? :nope:
*sigh* Anyway...

I'll join the people questioning this whole "dumbing down"/"streamlining" thing, as by now I don't even know what each of them mean, or what's the difference according to the majority here, nor do I really care really.

I just tend to get annoyed by the "gasp, things are removed, that's instantly bad because more is better!" mindset a lot of people tend to follow, not to mention some of the convoluted reasoning just hurts my head...
So things are removed. Could they make it better? Maybe, but they didn't, they worked on something else. The end.

I haven't seen Beth "dumb down" anything yet. This term is so stupidly overused that it is really meaningless now.

I guess I'd have to call it streamling.

I suspect that to fit some other stuff onto the allotted space, some things that were marginal or redundant were cut.

We will eventually know whether these things were worth it or not.

I would say the difference is

Dumbing down = making a game more simple as to require less thought, intelligence or skill to complete

Streamlining = to make the game make more sense whilst keeping skills or elements already existing from previous games but improving upon them. Whilst removing redundent or unimportant elements

That's a good observation. I'm glad Dragon Age 2 turned out the way it did, it let people know what to look out for.

Streamlining definitely includes the removal of redundant or unnecessary/unfun elements too.

Both are terrible, so hopfully neither.

One of the dictionary definitions of steamlining is "simplifying," and this is what it generally means when it is used in reference to video games (especially RPGs). It also means "mainstreaming," as in "brought to the mainstream for ‘everyone’."

Many gamers say that Oblivion, Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect 2 were all ‘streamlined.’ And I'm concerned that Skyrim will be added to this list, based on some of what we know about the game.

OP, you just need to fix something:

Dungeons don't lock at your level when you entered. There are high level dungeons even if you entered them at level 2. They work with ranges, and lock at the closest to your level. example, a level 45-50 dungeon will lock at 45 if you enter it at level 5 anyways.


As for my point, I'll have to agree, I'm seriously sick of the term "dumbing down", as it is not only insulting towards the developpers and the game itself, but to anyone that plays it too. STOP USING THAT TERM

I can't help but feel they are dumbing it down.
I'm sure I will still enjoy it but I really don't like many of the things they have done with the game so far.
Skyrim being part of the Elder Scrolls series is the only thing having me excited for it at this point.

wait they took out star signs?
thats disappointing

it's not how many skills there are, it's how much you can do with the skill.

Like magic, dont care that they remuved mysticism i care to have more spells and variaty of theme for the remaning skills.

Anyone have the definitions for these terms?

We need to know them before we talk about what is and isn't.

They both mean the same thing...

making it simple

pick your poison....

No they did not take away the star signs lolz .......