I totally agree with you in this one...

The things that I like in FO3 and FO:NV dungeons is the holotapes, terminal entries, and notes that are scattered around. They add interesting stories that make each dungeon different from each other...

from a engineering and archtectural point of vies those pre war architects in the fallout world were pretty mad or sometimes even complete inept if you look at the layouts of many of the buildong or tunnels , even with all the damage so i guess we can expect some interesting dungoncrawls and seeing what they did in skyrim i really do expect some fasscinating one and lets hope they made them all equal in interest and challenge

A building can't disagree with anyone. Its a building, and a fictional one at that.

But I understand what you were trying to say so my question is this. Why? Dunwich was just as generic as every other location in Fallout 3. They just threw some 'creepy' into it. Doesn't make it any less boring.

But... a VW Bug drives the same way and has the same interior as another VW Bug. I mean, is an office building with a slightly different layout from another, filled with the same desks that have the same pencils, 80% of the terminals that can't be accessed, a Nuka Cola machine here or there, corridors that lead to a set of steps leading to more rooms with no loot worth hauling around, appealing?? Look, I'm not saying Bethesda doesn't skimp on the details. They make each cell in their games very ambient. Just when you enter a dungeon that is occupied by enemies, there should be more going on that what's already there. Clever traps need to be set up, raiders need to have a strategy while they police the halls, and the level design needs to challenge the player. You can use the same textures and tile pieces, but there needs to be more instances of being able to look at an area you can't reach or temps to you to try and reach. It gets quite boring going through rooms that lead you to the next room without any real purpose.

You've lost me again. You say they are meant to look the same because it's the metro, then you say if they were identical then you wouldn't explore them.

Wait.. offices have desks? you don't say.
I have a feeling our definitions of identical are not identical. Dungeons being Identical would include layouts being the same. Offices are going to have desks, and generally look like an office, despite having differing floor plans.

Offices, hospitals, schools, hotels- they all have different things in them from one another. But a hospital in one place is going to have medical equipment, just like another hospital will. Again, if thats what makes you consider it identical, then sorry.

Again, Sameness =/= identical.
I have a sameness with my wife in that we are both bipedal humans, with two eyes, ears, a nose- you know people. Yet as crazy as it sounds, we are still not identical. I'll give you a second to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.


I am sorry that you can't make the distinction between metros being built to look cohesive (tiles, bricks, rails, turnstyles, ticket booths- you know a metro tunnel) pre war, and the layout of the physical spaces being different.

Good luck with the thread, though.

And I'm sorry that you can't make the distinction between Generic School #1 and Generic School #4. A different layout that offers no new variety in gameplay and rewards you with no loot is what it is. I guess you're easily pleased, but you know, that's okay, too. It was quite silly in the first place to think that I started this thread because I really thought each dungeon had the same layout.

If you have known it in the first place, and truly believed in it without any possibility that you will change your opinion, why do you start a thread about it?

It is like starting a baking competition and inviting others to participate, yet when they come and participate, you declared yourself the winner because you are the judge, and you decided that your cake is the best, and others don't deserve it...

There's no point in inviting others just to make them leave angry -w-' At least, just make them leave annoyed, yet not angry. That's what polite words are for.

I didn't declare anybody was wrong, at the same time there are people ITT who share my opinion, too, in their own manner. It's not like getting a consensus about this subject is a bad thing. And if this was a baking competition, feel free to put me in last place. Just let me sample everyones food and get a second serving.

I see... Sorry for bothering then! Continue! *runs away*

To me every game has been an improvement to the last with design for 'dungeons.' As long as a company is improving i pretty much cut them slack because games are limited by time, money and hardware this means the "perfect" design is never going to happen, so long as the company is improving i feel they are giving me value.

All open world games i have played all suffer from 'content fatigue,' because there is a limited amount to the budget both in terms of TIME and money they will reuse asset sets. This means if you binge play you will see repeated content over and over and it will start to get boring. This is just a price we pay for open world freedom which is why i often put the game down and come back a week later when i start to get 'content fatigue.' I have lots of games that i play but rarely do I binge play any past the first week or two because I want the game to be a joy for longer than one play through.

The only detail that bothered me in FO3 and FONV was the generic trash texture used everywhere. I get the whole world is wasted. I get that the maid hasn't been in for a few hundred years. But seeing the exact same trash texture got old really fast. I don't think it's realistic to expect 100 different trash textures to put on the floor, but when trash is a big thing I would like to have more than the few that were used in the prior games.

I thought the variation in the vaults was about as good as it could be. I mean they were made basically exactly the same. Some went dark, some got flooded, some overgrown with plants, some full of radiation, etc., but they are going to be very similar. If they weren't I'd think something was wrong.

I think the point a lot of people are missing is that most of us want to limit dungeon crawling to a minimum. Dont get me wrong, it can be fun and it has its place. However, I think most players would prefer to spend their time in the wasteland instead of doing fetch-quests that lead us into another vault/cave/dungeon/metro/or whatever...

The same can be said for Skyrim. Most of the dungeons (though not all) are Akavir design. And ancient. I'm talking strictly lore, or course. Of course that lore made it easier for the devs to design the dungeons.

The biggest change from Oblivion was the quick exit from the dungeons. In Skyrim, no longer do you have to backtrack to exit. Which is most welcome.

It was in Oblivion too. Some Oblivion dungeons, like Vilverin, had quick exits. The main difference is that it was more widespread in Skyrim.

Are you chitin me? Have you even played Morrowind? Have you seen the diverse dungeons?

Dwemer dungeons were a whole other world, with its own traps, ghosts, exits and loot, Daedric Shrines were extremely different and unique, every shrine would never look like the other, the same goes to Dwemer dungeons, abandoned forts, caves and Sixth House dungeons.

The only generic looking places were the Ancestral Tombs, because they were built the same due to traditions, and not every Ancestral Tomb looks like the one before it, every tomb has a unique loot, urns and spirits, sometimes you can even talk to these Ancestral Spirits.

I have a feeling that you've never played Morrowind, or bothered to look beyond the first tomb or cave.

dungeons don't refer to just midevil type areas, building complexes/secret bases etc are all dungeons

Yes I have played the game, no, it really didnt have diverse dungeons

and yes, every Dwemer ruin/Daedric shrine looked the same, they couldnt not since they all used the same limited tileset.

There's plenty of ways to make a metro different from another one: a monster nest, collapsed things, settlements, abandoned settlements, or just make them a quick connection to something else.

Yes, easily pleased, that's me. My game library is small because every game that comes out is such a joy to play for lil' ol' easily please me.

Anyway, since we are onto the next dungeon type, schools.....
There are only two school "dungeons" in F3- there is also a schoolhouse at the republic of Dave, which is a completely different type of thing. ("generic school #4"?).
Both of the two that are dungeons look like schools, oddly enough, with desks and chalkboards.....
But the layouts, number of areas, enemies, and even some of the textures used in areas of them are different. They both offer loot- skill books, nuka quantums, and even quest items.

They both offer a different story.
Springvale is where Raiders are basing a plan to dig a tunnel to gain access to V101. They didn't expect to dig right into an ants nest though.

Roosevelt Academy is a depot of sorts for super mutants and has one of the largest groups of super mutants in the game. There are evacuation tunnels running underneath the school, littered with childrens skeletons, telling the tale of a school that was desperately, yet futilely, trying to escape (Springvale, on the other hand, championed the duck and cover method- referenced by the duck and cover poster we see there).

Two things are identical about them.
1) They are both schools.
2) Being schools, they have books, so you can find a sheet music book for the quest Agatha's Song in them.

And they are.

Same tileset =/= same dungeon, yes they were limited due to engine limits at the time, but that does not make every dungeon/ruin/shrine the same.

The Daedric shrine in the foreign canton in Vivec City does not look like the Daedric shrines you find in the ashlands, and every Daedric shrine in the ashlands is different compared to other shrines

Actually there is one dungeon in Skyrim that I thought was pretty interesting compared to the rest. Its that one cave near Solitude that a gang of pirates uses as a hideout. They took parts of wrecked ships and built a base inside an underwater cave. The dawnguard DLC also had some pretty cool dungeons.

Fallout 3 has nothing like that except maybe little lamplight, and the whole idea of that place is just stupid as hell so it doesn't count.

Skyrim didn't do it better.

Rather, there were just several parts of a dungeon created, then stitched together to make it appear they're different. If you paid attention, most are repeated over and over, especially in Draugr ruins.

I don't recall vaults being identical. Some had more levels, looked run down, and each had their own unique experience.

Best vault I've played so far: Vault 34 of FONV. Man, was that fun. Puzzle. Ghouls. Constant radiation. Twisting rooms and that little hidden path in the medical room. Now that's how one creates a good experience.