They encourage the player NOT to do something just so they can get a better reward later on.

For instance, say you play through every dungeon you run into right away, even at lower levels. By the time you reach a really high level (say in the 60s), most of the dungeons in the game will be more than 10 or 20 levels lower than you, resulting in combat that is too easy and dungeon loot that is too low when you decide to go back in there, so if you want decent treasure by this time, you have to "eat the same deviled egg" over and over again, resulting in a more lackluster experience.

I'm not saying that Oblivion's leveled system for dungeons is better, but it would be nice if reentering a dungeon meant a higher level encounter than the first time you entered it.

Now that my logical rant is over, maybe (but not bloody likely) something will change for the better.

Really? I hated how in OB it stopped leveling with you after like 21.

You've got a point. I don't want half the map to be level 1. I guess the low level places should be leveled to you. That would make the most sense.

I liked the feel of leveling in Oblivion with a OOO+MMM build. At any rate, there are probably enough dungeons in the game that it would be difficult to visit all of them before you hit 50th.

When you finish all the dungeons you already would have leveled enough so that the last dungeons still a challenge. (It if the first dungeons don't level after a certain point)
Just assumptions.

This is a concern of mine I hope they put alot of consideration into this and how best it should be implemented.

I thought people considered the dungeon level ranges to be a good thing - places that weren't fully level scaled, so you could stumble across places that were too dangerous for you to just walk into. :shrug:


...and, as I recall, the "random quest" system will send you to the closest "appropriate level" dungeon. So, while you might go, for fun, into a dungeon that's locked ten levels below you, a quest shouldn't send you to a place like that - it should send you to a dungeon close to your level. (Or am I remembering incorrectly?)



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Personally, I never had any problems with leveled loot in Oblivion - I certainly never held off doing quests until high level so that I could get "the best" gear. I did quests whenever I wanted to, and got appropriate awards for those quests. No big deal.

I don't see why there can't be fixed level dungeons right from the start. Some low, some medium, and some level 50+. If a player walks into a level 50+ dungeon when they're level 3, so be it. They can either try their hardest to survive, or avoid that dungeon until they're more powerful. It adds to the believeability of the world if there are dangerous places beyond what you can handle right away.

That's why you don't raid all dungeons on level one... also it would be impossible.

Firstly because some dungeons have minimum levels, or made to have higher level content than your character.
Secondly, because you don't have to sleep to levelup anymore, you cannot just finish the game at level one, because you will level up if you do anything.

At most this will be like in Morrowind, except there won't be Steam centurions and Dremora lords out of nowhere in ruins you've already been...

This is only likely to cause a problem if you duck into and immediately retreat from every dungeon in the game.

If you actually fight your way through them, you're going to level up as you go, especially since leveling is considerably faster this time around.

I hope the 'wilderness areas' (ares far away from civilization(towns, roads, etc.)) will be higher levels. The farther you go away from the towns, the harder it will get. Something like that. :shrug:

The dungeons are locked, yes. But they have level ranges like Fallout 3. There will be no issue of every dungeon being level one if you go explore. For instance: If you enter a dungeon with a range of 45-50 at level 1, it will lock to 45. If you enter it at 47 it locks at 47. If you enter higher than 50 it locks at 50.

how would that work though if you never went into any dungeons because you want better rewards later on you would never get xp and never level up, I think that dungeon locking is just fine because people almost never visit the same dungeon twice

I have always thought this is the best method for all the dungeons in the game it makes the most sense.

Exactly.
There will be high level areas and dungeons from the start in Skyrim.

I like the way you explain things.

ummm.... dont make it a goal to visit every dungeon at a low level then?
besides they dont lock at youre exact level
they hav a predetermined min and a max that they can reach, so its not possible to have a bunch of level 1 dungeons just because you entered them

I wish the world would "release" the locks over an extended period of time, or, rather than refresh entirely, have new creatures gradually arrive... most at the lower level, some at higher levels.

I'm gonna have to let the cat out of the bag on this one... Or rather, out of the box.

The purpose of "level locking" dungeons is the same as the purpose behind leveling quest rewards: With an "organic" playthrough, the low-level items you recieve for quests aren't legendary artifacts: for helping a few farmers clear out a minor goblin infestation that any recently-escaped convict can clear out, you get an old sword from a washed-out old one-time warrior. At higher levels, it becomes clear the monster infestation is something that requires a legendary hero to defeat... such as the man the farmers' father use to be. Then, instead of getting some sentimental heirloom from a guy who swung a sword a few times in his life, you get the artifact-blade once handled by a peerless warrior, swordsman, and hero who had since retired to a peaceful farm life. In Oblivion, Valus Odiil had a chance of being an old warrior, retired hero, or anywhere in between: only once you accepted the quest did it confirm which he was.

Likewise, with level-scaling/locking dungeons, the world is in the same state of both, high and low level at once, until observed by the Dhovakin. Areas that you enter at low levels happen to be relatively calm, peaceful locations, with the occasional hyper-aggressive wolf. The game assumes they always were and always will be low-leveled. Areas you encounter at higher levels are dangerous, with vicious creatures that rend people limb-from-limb, where only the toughest survive. What seems like a peaceful hamlet discovered at level 50 only manages to maintain that aesthetic because it's inhabited by badass warriors too tough to get taken down, and too awesome to move away.

The problem is when the metagame gets involved.

i got that build. my only problem i have with it is i went into this one cave and there were probably a good 50 enemies throughout it. each room had like 5 or 6. without aoe spells it was kinda hard to deal with that many in the cramped quarters, especially since my main weapon is a bow.

as for dungeons im sure it'll work itself out. no need to get worked up over it.

Ok, Im not sure if this is hard facts because it seem's to drown in the pool of brain mush that is this forum.I Thought that lets say a lvl 10-15 dungeon if u enter at lvl 5 its locked at lvl 10 but once ur char is lvled past lvl 15 or at lvl 15, if u re-enter that cave or dungeon it would be at its max cap witch would be lvl 15. but like i said not sure if those are facts or not just something i read this or last week,man my head hurts trying to fig this game out with out stone cold facts.

Ah that makes more sense. As long as the loot in said dungeon matches the level range then I'm happy.

I think we should play the game naturally, and things will fall in to their places. But I agree with you, it would be good if they are just RANDOM(between preset ranges). Or a lock system works for early game, say until level 10. Then they remove locks and make it random(again between ranges).

PS. Or timed locks, that lasts for a week to month then resets to a random level(between ranges).

Flattery will get you nowhere everywhere! :hugs:


From the fan interview stickied in this very forum: (Question 5)



So, yes. It seems loot will be appropriate to the encounter zones level range. I hope that clears things up for you.

Every time they've given an example of a dungeon's level range, it's been five levels. Maybe in Oblivion that would have been more of an issue, since most characters wouldn't make it past 25. Considering that Skyrim is being considered levels 1 - 50, a five level difference should hardly be noticeable. If it were a twenty level difference that would be another thing entirely.