Dungeons "enemy-leveling" why? : V

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:41 pm

From a preview i heard the dungeons enemys will have the level you have while you enter a dungeon.
So for example if i move into every dungeon at start where i have level 1, every creature in the dungeons will have level 1?
Oh then i come back as level 5 or more and beat everyone with a blink?
Isn't that a bit "bad considered"?
I hope im wrong.

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:29 am

Because of the way the engine works.

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:27 am

It is like that. It's so that it's not impossibly hard at level one, but you don't get the horrible level scaling from Oblivion. I like it.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:18 pm

Once you have cleared a dungeon they will stay at that level but there 150 dungeons and the radiant AI is supposed to send you to new ones each time so I wouldnt worry to much

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:01 am

http://geck.gamesas.com/index.php/Encounter_Zone

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:26 am

I have read that areas in the overworld have a min and max level (i.e. if a zone is level 5-9 and you enter at level 3 it will scale to level 5).

Is this true of caves as well? I have searched but am having trouble finding anything on dungeons specifically.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:37 pm

It sounds just like Oblivion`s crazy leveling. Hopefully it won`t be too difficult to be corrected by modders.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:35 pm

From a preview i heard the dungeons enemys will have the level you have while you enter a dungeon.
So for example if i move into every dungeon at start where i have level 1, every creature in the dungeons will have level 1?
Oh then i come back as level 5 or more and beat everyone with a blink?
Isn't that a bit "bad considered"?
I hope im wrong.

Not completely right, but not completely wrong either.
It works like this:

Skyrim uses level scaling akin to Fallout. This means there are high level regions from the start.
Dungeons will use a level range, and lock themselves to your level the moment you enter them.

This means that if you enter a lvl 5-10 dungeon at level 1, it will lock to level 5.
If you enter it at level 15, it will lock to level 10.

I believe that this system will work a lot better than Oblivion's, because of the possibility of encountering enemies far higher (or lower) than your level.
I kinda like it.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:27 pm

Thanks Merari.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:36 pm

Once you have cleared a dungeon they will stay at that level but there 150 dungeons and the radiant AI is supposed to send you to new ones each time so I wouldnt worry to much

Which sadly could result in the game having nothing but dungeons belong level 20.
Personally I have to see exactly how it works in-game before I judge it though.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:23 pm

Let's say we have a lvl 5 dungeon and a level 40 dungeon, if you enter those dungeons at lvl 1, the dungeons will lock at the original lvl (lvl 5 and lvl 40).

So no, dungeons do not tailor and lock exactly to the players current level, you will find easy dungeons and hard dungeons throughout Skyrim.

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:22 am

So long as there are plenty of dungeons with significantly high lock ranges i feel it will be fine, i don't want to dungeon crawl like crazy and then have only a few new potential dungeons available that can lock to my level. A way to reset the locks through a menu might be a welcome addition or perhaps something a modder can implement.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:15 pm

Once you have cleared a dungeon they will stay at that level but there 150 dungeons and the radiant AI is supposed to send you to new ones each time so I wouldnt worry to much

Right, i forget they will "re-fill" the dungeons once if you beat them.
My mind was all the time "the items are in the dungeons" so its easier to kill them on lower level.
The bad thing in oblivion was, i never want to level up, because the enemys get harder, so why should i do that ^^

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:55 am

Not completely right, but not completely wrong either.
It works like this:

Skyrim uses level scaling akin to Fallout. This means there are high level regions from the start.
Dungeons will use a level range, and lock themselves to your level the moment you enter them.

This means that if you enter a lvl 5-10 dungeon at level 1, it will lock to level 5.
If you enter it at level 15, it will lock to level 10.

I believe that this system will work a lot better than Oblivion's, because of the possibility of encountering enemies far higher (or lower) than your level.
I kinda like it.

This

People need to understand how the Skyrim (Fallout) system works vs. Oblivions

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:51 pm

Not completely right, but not completely wrong either.
It works like this:

Skyrim uses level scaling akin to Fallout. This means there are high level regions from the start.
Dungeons will use a level range, and lock themselves to your level the moment you enter them.

This means that if you enter a lvl 5-10 dungeon at level 1, it will lock to level 5.
If you enter it at level 15, it will lock to level 10.

I believe that this system will work a lot better than Oblivion's, because of the possibility of encountering enemies far higher (or lower) than your level.
I kinda like it.

I really hope we don't get dungeons where it's "block-slash x1,500" for 15 minutes. Ugh. The system you described sounds interesting, but I wonder how much harder the higher level enemies are....

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:22 am

This isnt true
Dungeons now have a level system in which they are defined as lv5-10 dungeons lv10-15 dungeons and so on and so on.
If u enter a level 10-15 at level 11 it locks at lv 11 with a level 12-13 boss at the end
If u enter lv5 it locks at 10
And if u enter at lv 20 it locks at 15

U can see an example of this in the hands on that discovered falmer for us
He entered the cave and found a really awesome weapon (cuz he didnt know it was a super high level dungeon)
And even with his enchanted fire sword of awesome
He still got completely destroyed....he was level 2
I am guessing the falmer were like level 15

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:04 pm

From a preview i heard the dungeons enemys will have the level you have while you enter a dungeon.
So for example if i move into every dungeon at start where i have level 1, every creature in the dungeons will have level 1?
Oh then i come back as level 5 or more and beat everyone with a blink?
Isn't that a bit "bad considered"?
I hope im wrong.

Creatures in the environment do not level with you, and before you could even try doing that you would be one shotted by powerful monsters surrounding the area of the dungeon.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:30 pm

Creatures in the environment do not level with you, and before you could even try doing that you would be one shotted by powerful monsters surrounding the area of the dungeon.

Yes this is also true
There have been several hands on accounts of people
getting stomped by frost trolls while they were wandering
Sometimes it was hilarious
Sometimes it was just sad

Dragons are going to be even harder
There was a level 3 hands on guy who got a quest to fight one alongside some troops
And he couldnt even scratch the thing
He died 3 times in 6 minutes before his playthrough time ran out

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:02 am

Yes this is also true
There have been several hands on accounts of people
getting stomped by frost trolls while they were wandering
Sometimes it was hilarious
Sometimes it was just sad

Dragons are going to be even harder
There was a level 3 hands on guy who got a quest to fight one alongside some troops
And he couldnt even scratch the thing
He died 3 times in 6 minutes before his playthrough time ran out

I think it was Sammu(?) that said the people that were dying were generally terrible at the game.

» Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:08 am

I like the way the fallout system works, more so than oblivion's. But I think the dungeons should "recalculate" the level whenever they are refilled. I dislike the idea of being a lvl 50, and only finding level 10-20 enemies (and loot) because i walked into a crap load of dungeons early in the game. This is why i find "set" level enemies to be preferred.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:43 pm

Because it's just silly returning to a dungeon only to see that the occupants are different...

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:37 pm

The other thing to consider is it will be impossible to reach every 200+ dungeon and lock it in at level 1. Most people are level 6 after just 3 hours of play, and it takes an hour just to find a few dungeons. So by the time you even find 1/3 the dungeons, I'd estimate you'll already be level 30 or so. That would be doing dungeons exclusively too, avoiding quests and outdoors as much as possible.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:28 pm

I wonder if dungeon bosses will respawn? It would be silly to kill a mage with the name "NAME SURNAME" and after 3 days you re-enter the same dungeon to find the same mage with the same name. Have no problems with enemies re-spawning in the same dungeons though, would be weird to go to Bleak Falls Barrow and see Draugrs replaced by Trolls.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:13 pm

It'll be fine.

» Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 pm

I would actually like some dungeons to be repopulated with different inhabitants after initial clear, certainly leave some the same, but such a change could only add replayability.