All right. I've been doing some research into TES lore for a story I'm writing, and there's one thing I just can't seem to find...so, hypothetical question time: let's say that a member of Morrowind's ruling family--like, for example, King Helseth himself, were to shuffle off this mortal coil. What would then be done with the body?

The assumption I'm working with right now is that the body would be taken to Necrom (presumably in a grand procession befitting a royal corpse), and then entombed there...possibly in a separate "Tomb of Kings" type thing that would specifically be set aside for a ruling family. But then, I can't find all that much definitive information about Necrom. So...any thoughts? (Not just on where he'd be buried, but if there'd be any sort of funeral processions, or anything like that.)

Depends on whether he'd be buried to Imperial custom or Dunmer custom. I'm not up on Imperial rites I'm afraid, bit I know it's the revered hope and desire for all powerful Dunmer to be buried in Necrom.

But he might just want to be buried at High Rock. I'd say being buried at Necrom is a good way to keep the Dunmer with him.

Judging from the ashpits in tombs, the Dunmer have a tradition of burning their dead, which usually only leaves the bones intact. I've always envisioned Necrom as a massive funeral pyre, with catacombs filled with bones and ash.

Yes, buried. That's what I meant. Buried-burnt. Whatever. Dunmer go to Necrom, all the important ones anyhow.

See, I don't think we have a lot of solid information about what Necrom's like (at least, not that I can find), which is part of what's tripping me up. It could be a giant pyre or a massive series of tombs...who knows?

I'd agree that the Dunmer seem to follow a tradition of cremation--but is it possible Helseth's body wouldn't be cremated until it reached Necrom? (Or High Rock, as the case may be. I may have to flip a coin on that one.) Then you'd have a tradition somewhat like our own of having a body lay in state, only in this case you'd have people coming to mourn/pay their respects as the procession wound its way to Necrom.

Seeming that the bridge to Necrom is described as carrying an endless supply of corpses from the Mainland, and that funeral processions are described as lasting entire months, with mourners, priests and attendants all busy in perpetual activity around dead Dunmer, I'd guess that Dunmer don't burn anyone until the body arrives in Necrom. I'd say it's a sacred act that only the Tribunal priests should do - set the bodies on fire, all heavily ritualized of course, as per Dunmer fancy.

Makes sense to me. Being processed off to Necrom for cremation it is, then!

One thing to note is that "Kingship" is not a Dunmer custom. Don't expect to find high traditional funerary rites fit for a king in Morrowind, since their king is not the product of local custom, but rather an Imperial installation. Any special rites for Helseth would be a recent invention.

If you're writing a story, remember that it's 'rites' and not 'rights'. This isn't grammar Nazism btw; as "funeral rights" would mean something totally different, and if it wasn't in context people might not be able to tell you actually mean rites.

Sorry; hadn't had my coffee yet when I posted this thread...usually I catch things like that before I make too much of a fool of myself. :facepalm:

Ashes to ashes. No seriously. The Dunmer OWN that cliche.

Lol, your location needs to be changed to "censored for excessive puns" (when it comes to puns, one is considered excessive)

hmmm dont forget that:

temples have ashpits
dunmer use ghost-fences/gates made from bodies/bones of dead dunmer to protect their houses
nearly all remains are shipped to the ghost gate of morrowind to protect against the blight

Were shipped to the Ghostfence, you mean. The Devil is dead, the Blight is gone, so very likely, the Dunmer will soon return to keeping their own local fences.

I'm not so sure on the Tribunal priest part. Even though they are the chief religion of the Dunmer, it's said in a little quote I've got bellow here that Necrom and it's tradition as the 'ultimate morgue' (Er, well not literally, but you know what I mean) predates the Tribunal.



If that's true, then surely some organization was in charge of it before. Maybe the Tribunal did seize control of the burial rights for Necrom since it's also said that it fueled the Ghostgate, but I'm not sure. Any guesses?

-DL :chaos:

Ghostgate, not Ashgate. The Cyrodils summon their ancestors by charming a cloud of moths, the Dunmer might not need a body either.

Wait, wait, wait. I don't deny that the Dunmer likely burn their dead, but don't the Ashlander burial caves have mummified corpses sitting around? I'm pretty sure there were. So, while the modern, House Dunmer may cremate their dead, I'm pretty sure the Ashlanders did (or possibly still do) mummify theirs.

I'm pretty sure that the Ashlanders have a different view of the whole thing as well and probably ain't so friendly to the Tribunal.

They surre do! The Urshilaku and the Candidates in the Cave of the Nerevarine candidates would be proud of you.

And that suggests that Either the Great Houses or the Tribunal have monkeyed around with the most sacred rites and rights! or ...

Well we know that the Tribunal altered things to create the Ghost Fence as you guys mentioned earlier - but is there more to it?

The Exiles from Somerset Isle followed their own ancestral custom - I suspect that was part of their reason for leaving to discover their own land - because they would not and could not mix and match customs with the Altmer, then or later the Daedra seem to have moved in - especially the Lady of Dawn and Dusk - and clearly she followed Urshilaku custom ... where the Nerevarine was involved ... but all the Chimer (later named Dunmer) started out as nomadic Velothi like the Ashlanders before the Great Houses began to form. Ashlander is just a term attached to those who remained more or less true to ancient custom and were given thename because they were forced to live in the Ashlands in the shadow of the Volcano.

So was the burning of the bodies to do with preventing unhappy spirits from manifesting?

It is likely that many were disadvantaged by the rise of the Houses - not only the Ashlanders, but also the members of smaller Houses that were absorbed into the large and many members of the Great Houses themselves - both victimisers and victims. Great power is not a comfortable thing.

Now if Dagoth Ur had been cremated would he have been able to return as he did?

The Tombs of the Saints and various Houses small and great for example - maybe that was what happened to the Great before Necrom was founded ...

Well, what always threw me off was nearly every urn inside the Ancestral Tombs had...BONEDUST in them. Now...that leads me to believe that they may have adapted an Ancient Egyptian image and stored various body parts in the urns, while the more recently deceased of the lineage got burned up in the ash pits/sent away to Necrom. Ghostgate doesn't need bodies. It needs souls...which...is kind of disarraying, because from what I remember, only a 'Black' Soulgem can hold a man/mer soul...so isn't that conveying Necromancy any way? Besides, The Tribunal are so huffed up about having to keep the Ghostgate stable any way, you'd think the souls would have eased it up a bit on them. Maybe people were dying to slowly.

I have always imagined this mental, metaphysical battle going on between Dagoth Ur and The Triunes, and as Dagoth Ur gets the upper hand, the Ghostgate weakens more and more. I mean they're all pretty DAMN connected, and that's also more support to my thought that they all knew what was going to happen at the same time...

Ah, yes, but in any general case, the funeral rites of Dunmer vary. Black Hands Guild will tell you that the dead are to be preserved, admired. The Tribunal Temple will tell you to burn the body in Necrom, or in an Ancestral Tomb (and that's the consensus for the whole of Morrowind, too). Telvanni would be likely to just experiment on the body, make it grow into a new house pod or something. And then there are those who may follow older (oooolder) Velothian traditions and have you simply decorate your home with their remains. Or just tell you to burn the body, keep the soul.

Well parts of remains could be used, so lets say most of the great nobles and privileged are sent to Necrom, where they are partially cremated, in all the proper fashions in accordance to Tribunal/Dunmer tradition. Then some of this could be buried in Necrom, why other parts of it are sent to Ghostgate/fence or other important locations. Some Dunmer probably even volunteer for this sort of thing, probably mostly Temple devouts, like the Indorils. So we see a constant traffic both into and out of Necrom. It is also possible that the remains don't stay forever at these places, and might be sent back to Necrom... maybe as a way to give the soul a break or get a more "charged" soul. I would be willing to bet that the Telvanni, at least the lords, don't even send their bodies to Necrom. This is just me imagining, but I see them as eventually being absorbed eventually into their Towers, fueling it just like the original soul gems, while younger lords move into the older towers. The Telvanni towers on Vvardenfell are probably not old enough for this to have happened yet.

Also, the Tribunal Temple likely adopted House burial traditions, so even if they took over the operation of Necrom, most likely nothing significant changed there.

Edit: Also, the Ancestral tombs suggest that not all are sent to Necrom, even of the wealthier(as a family would need to be wealthy for such tombs), and it has been a while but some looked like they might have more recent remains in them. I might be wrong, but I recall some skeletal remains as well, so cremation might not be the answer for all burials, just the most popular.

It has probably already been said, but they burn their dead, and the higher ups become bonewalkers. I think Indoril Nerevar is one actually.