Shor isn't a god to comfort in, I just don't see this kind of proselytizing happening. The change the Dunmer are undergoing is something, I believe, would be cheapened with a conversion to Shor worship, and the elves might find this "All-maker" fascinating, but I don't think they'll convert. They still hold the Sermons in high regard by the fifth era. Veneration for the Tribunal or Azura may not be out of the question. They are still her people.

It just occurred to me that, for what it's worth, another word for "dragon" is "worm". Made peace with the Dragon, maybe? I'm not sure of the implications of that.

That's what I was trying to elaborate on. And to the nords, the dragon is Shor. So, if the dunmer "made peace with the Worm," I see it as they made peace with Shor, or by association with the nords. Plus, the nordish and dunmer (well, Vivec) view of Shor is that they recognize his sacrifice for the mortals.

I see, to make peace with his people is to make peace with him. Makes sense.

The only problem is that I have a hard time swallowing the notion that the nords would accept the dunmer on a large scale. Traditionally, the nords pretty much held the view "a good elf is a dead elf," as evident with Shor's view of "kill any [censored] elf you see." For the nords to accept the dunmer on a macro scale is a huge deal, because the dunmer either somehow convinced the nords they're not your typical 'we hate Shor' elves, or something else happened and the nords don't complete their annihilation. This a huge change for both parties, and I'd like to know why and how this happens(ed).

Traditionalist Nords are few on Solstheim, and Dunmer survivors may easily outnumber them. The traditionalists also don't like the Skaal and vice versa. Little opposition from Shor there. The Skaal decided they would accomodate the elves, and by the fifth era 911, we have a great, "First City" built and a couple new Houses (Jaroon and Sul). I'm not saying there aren't enemies in Skyrim, but from all we know, it seems their kingdom survives well into the fifth era.

Oh, never did I dispute that; it's just odd for nords to not hate elves.

But as I read The Story of Aevar Stone-Singer, I kept getting the feeling that the All-Maker is Shor, while The Greedy Man is Alduin. I deduce this, because Alduin to the nords comes and consumes the world (get it, time eats away everything), and also goes by the name of Thartaag the World-Devourer (again, keeping in line with consuming the world, like what Alduin does). In addition, it was Shor who created the world, and hence "All-Maker."

In essence, the Skaal are hardcoe Shor worshipers, but they don't seem to be the bloody violent types found in Skyrim, just very strict with their nature codes. So...I guess it works in the end, and the dunmer end up making peace with Shor via Skaal and the nords of Thirsk (who are not as zealous and traditional as the Skaal).

I'm confused. How would the eruption of Red Mountain affect mainland Morrowind if Solstheim, which was much closer to the volcano than most of the mainland, was still there after the eruption?

The winds blew southwards, carrying ash from Red Mountain :shrug: . Maybe Solstheim isn't a snowy hell anymore, and became a little more temperate to allow better crop growing and such, and is now a viable living area for a larger population.

"Seen any elves? Ha ha ha!"

Even I picked up on the Nords' dislike of elves in TES III and even a bit in TESIV. Peace doesn't necessarily mean conversion. They could make their peace with the Nords, but that doesn't mean the Dunmer would then eagerly adopt Nordic religion/ideology/culture.

Or maybe a tsunami from the eruption got rid of the Nords on Solstheim.


OK, it probably didn't.

Was just tossing ideas around, but yeah religious conversion does seem unlikely. Everything else, it would be interesting to see how it plays out.

Wait..I am confused now...Were you involved in making the book, MK? (Because I know you wrote a lot of lore for TES)

I'm pretty sure that the Nords on solsthiem would just refuse to talk to any outsider unless they were accusing them of attack. I would assume that castle Kirstagg would be home to may dumeri, as they would be able to fit a large populatio there. in fact, there might be an entire city around it now.
I'd also ssume that the temperature would drasticly rise due to the heavy goethermal activity so nearby. Pehaps the Nords up and left due to changing climate.

Kayes said in an interview that he kept close contact with the loremasters (as well as explore the TES lore himself) so yes, MK probably was kinda involved in making the book.

Ok, so in order for LOVE to work the nords have to stay in Solstheim and embrace the refugees, right?

And if we take the Loveletter as the basic warning against this disaster, and also the inspiration for writing it into Tamriel?s history, then lets try to find some passage in it that hints any religion conversion from the dunmer beliefs to nordic religion.

So, no more temple or tribunal worship.... they made peace with Shor but do they really worship him? Maybe their whole belief system just galvanized behind Vivec and he becomes some sort of spiritual savior for dunmer refugees.

Am I completely lost here???

You don't need to necessarily convert to another religion to lose faith in the one you're currently in.

Judging from the "Loveletter", Vivec reappears at some point. It also mentions Dunmer who go on pilgrimage under the banner of Vehk, so worship of the Tribunal might not disappear completely.

"I have seen proof, as any who come Up during Landfall Season, when the winds die down enough Above that all may make pilgrimage under the banner of Vehk and Vehk." Also, "The C0DA broke when Twice Vehk appeared again from Aether, but they captured enough of Him to render the words stable again."

"My name is Jubal-lun-Sul, of House Sul, whose name is known and heard throughout the Scathing Bay and the Nine times Nine Thrones. Our lord is High Alma Jaroon, of House Jaroon, whose city is the First City of the New North, where all who Went Under from Landfall settled and made peace with the Worm, when we were not Eighty and One separate peoples but One, carrying the tibrols on our back together and cutting tunnels by the light and heat that all mer wore, with equal dust in every mouth. My family's name comes from the first child born in the Velothiid, Haeko-dol-Sul, and, like him, we are salt merchants. Our crest is the tusk of the bat-tiger. Our bloodline is registered by C0DA." -- Note that the Scathing Bay is mentioned; probably the waters around the former Vivec City. "The First City of the New North" might be the exodus to Solstheim. The Velothiid is apparently the Dunmer diaspora, or the new nation they create. It looks as if this has been in the works by MK for a long time.

Or moves to exclusively Vivec worship. Seemed as though Vivec looked into the whole mythic thing a hell of a lot more than the other 2. Then again...we don't have too much info on Sotha Sil, because he was so reclusive.

Yea, hopefully some of his journals will be uncovered at some point - or better yet, have somebody find a way to download data from his clockwork city's mainframe...

I just hope they don't press ctrl-alt-del or alt-f4 by accident.

I would love to get the perspectives of the other two Tribunal False Gods! I mean, love him or hate him (and whether or not you believe in CHIM) Vivec does hold some facinating world views most likely born of his thousands of years of being able to just stop and think without fear that he's wasting time since he is/was immortal. Imagine getting a several-thousand year old entity who thinks on a different plane of existence than humans that doesn't share Vivec's experiences and umvelt! Most of all I would love to see Almalexia's slow decent into "OMFG I'm not gonna be a goddess anymore!" BSoD.

As for the typo of calling it Soulstheim, if only they had told us it was deliberate, we would have just eaten it up! Like I'm always saying, 75% of symbolism is accidental, and 99% of GOOD symbolism comes from that 75.

So its spelled "Soulstheim" now?
I assume that either the Dunmer are trying to repair their bonds with the nords or they are fighting for it....
Why has Azura forsaken us? I bet she planned the destruction of Morrowind the whole time.....

Naw, it's still called Soltheim, apparently it was a consistent typo.

But if they said it was, we would have been grasping for some kind of new symbolism, and almost certainly would have found some.

Azura got punted back into Oblivion because Vivec shoved his Muatra down her throat in revenge for changing the Chimer into Dunmer. And maybe for the whole Nerevarine business.

who knows, maybe she would have tried to be helpful if Vivec hadn't dealt that blow - seems to have impaired her ability to interact with the mundus like the other Princes?