Dutch cover story: Interesting Info #2 : V - Skyrim

» Sun May 15, 2011 1:07 am

Can you explain please?

Have you ever played Uncharted 2?

In UC2, you could find some relics, once you acquired these relics you could go to the menu, click on them and use the anolog to move the 3D object so you could examine the item, look at the detail, etc.

In some games, the same concept was introduced to solve puzzles. There was a game I once played, where there was a part that you find a little polaroid picture. If you entered the menu and clicked on it you would be able to rotate the 3D item, and behind the picture was a little text that was a clue to solve the puzzle.

The same concept will be applied in Skyrim.

» Sat May 14, 2011 4:07 pm

Why are so many people hung up on this "low fantasy" reference...wow...just wow...

It's odd, when I see the term "high fantasy" I think of it in a literary context - Narnia for example. Series which I personally think are completely lame and uninspired compared to the excessive mystique of Morrowind and, uh...

So when I see the term "low fantasy" I'm almost conditioned to assume it means a more unique setting. Still, I think stylistically Skyrim is much more unique than Oblivion.

» Sun May 15, 2011 1:36 am

I was expecting the map not to try to out size Oblivion from the start. I felt that they were really stretching themselves thin with Oblivion with contents. I've said it before: More packed, more variety, less justification to use fast travel.

Actually,that is the heart of the Fast Travel problems.The game world was so dull that that wasn't really fun in walking from one city to another.So people cannot "not use if not want"...
Make the world interesting,and we will have an actual choice than.

» Sat May 14, 2011 11:50 pm

'people these days'- As though you have been around for more than 3-4 years at the most.
I just meant that now, whenever a game is made, people complain. back when there weren't forums or things like that, people were glad new games were released, and could look past the few things that made the game not perfect (and there were also a lot more flaws in games back then(

Also, 'build something'? You do actually want people to take you seriously, right?
all I meant by that is: honestly, before bashing on everything, try to make something to please everyone. you'll see how hard it is. there's ALWAYS someone who's gonna whine about what you do, no matter what

They are, demonstrably, ignoring their fanbase, the opinions reflected in every poll here stand as testament to that. People want a less abrasive, overt system to fast travel with, it's a simple matter of immersion- you may wish to watch Yahtzee's Oblivion review for a slightly more aggressive illustration of this 'http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/75-Oblivion'.
they're NOT! look how many people bought Oblivion compared to Morrowind. their fanbase has grown, and the people on this forum are really a minority. I'm not saying that fast travel is a good thing, but honestly, there's NOTHING more immersive than just walking along the roads, which you ALWAYS could do. and in Skyrim, at least the environments are a lot more varied, so you won't "want" to use it!

'one or two pixels'- So the same people who are celebrating the fact that books in the game are 3D are now calling people who are genuinely concerned about pretty major components of the game petty? Honestly?
wait, I didn't celebrate 3D books. I think they're cool yeah, but nothing more (I dunno why you say that, I never even commentred on it). and BTW, I was simply exaggerating (spelling?) to get my message across: if you honestly can't look past those things, then don't buy it and stop whining for [censored]'s sake! it's not like anyone was forcing you to buy it

http://montyoum.deviantart.com/journal/37829793/#comments I suggest you read point number 4 (although replace FF with TES, but the message is the same)

» Sat May 14, 2011 10:52 pm

on size: it's overrated. It is nice when things are big, but it is really the experience that counts. As people have said, Morrowind felt bigger because its gameplay.
On books, depends on how much time they spent on it. We have no way to know how much dev time was involved, so no point praising or bashing it yet.
on fast travel: I don't mind whether it is there, just wish it could be toggled with other options available. Bethesda has a market outside of the rabid forumers (who are a small minority). Their average customer is not role playing a deer hunter totally uninterested in the main quest and obsessed with the market price of furs. So while I agree that there should be other options, I don't think Bethesda is completely oblivious. People here just have an ego complex (just because oblivion means so much to you, it doesn't follow that you mean so much to Oblivion). Bethesda's job is not to cater to a small minority.

I somewhat agree on the last point though: a lot of a people seem to adapt every piece of news so that it fits with their fantasy of a fantasy world. Just because there are going to be less dungeons, it doesn't mean each dungeon will be better. At the same time, having less dungeons doesn't mean the devs are just lazy either. People make inferences off of very little information. That being said, I disagree that vanilla Oblivion wasn't worth playing. I think people just take its flaws a lot more seriously after putting in 300 hours. Having the modding tools just raises the standards by which we judge the vanilla game. Every person judges the flaws of vanilla oblivion according to their subjective vision of what it is to them now (with their chosen mods). Thing is, no-one agrees what those changes should be, we all adapt the game to our vision of perfection. So either you have extremely high standards (and only think a couple of games are worth playing), or you are just bitter (seems more likely as you are on a Bethesda forum, apparently worth your time).

'ego-complex' Do you actually know what that means, or are you just trying on some soap-opera dramatics?

Perhaps had you actually read my post, you might have noticed that I was talking about 'their average customer' who, whilst perfectly capable of handling (and enjoying) games with Morrowind-esque travel systems (id est, Red Dead Redemption), seem to be treated as moronic children by Bethesda.

'subjective vision of what it is to them now' Again, do you actually understand what the word 'subjective' means, and how utterly superflous it is when used in this (and ~~practically~~ every other) context? Clearly not. God, that's depressing; all you've done is point out, in an insanely periphrastic manner, that 'people have opinions and they are different hurrr'.

'just bitter (seems more likely as you are on a Bethesda forum, apparently worth your time)' I'm not so sure that even you know what you are attempting to say here, but I'm still going to make a point out of 'bitter'. Yes, because being disappointed is somehow an utterly inhuman characteristic, we must all take whatever ridiculously 'let's make this game as though Apple were making it' (Apple being notably poor where game support is concerned) Todd Howard level bad decisions on the nose and continue on taking in up the rear from Bethesda.

» Sun May 15, 2011 2:20 am

Fast Travel, were complaining about Fast Travel being in Skyrim when they're more important things to complain about. Try playing Oblivion for 30 hours without fast travel trust me you'll want Fast Travel or some form of Fast Travel such as Warp Points in the game. I've been doing something like a Warp Point system in Oblivion and it's a lot of fun but the casual fan to which Bethesda is probably targeting Skyrim towards, won't be able to deal with Fast Travel not being in the game. It's a safe choice business wise and if you don't like it then don't use Fast Travel which will raise your skills faster or if you have PC just Mod it out.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:49 pm

Do you understand that its been stated skyrim is the same size as cyrodiil and has FEWER dungeons which means it will feel LESS cramped?

I do understand that there are fewer dungeons. About 70 fewer (from 200). But 130 is still too much I believe (for a size about the same of Oblivion). Oblivion was REALLY cramped up.
I think (but reaaaally hope not) Skyrim would be cramped up too, just less cramped up.

Also, with a size of Oblivion... we'll never be able to have landscapes like this

: http://www.cpawsbc.org/files/athead_Valley_from_Global_TV_helicopter_ride.jpg
That landscape there would practically be the entire map... :confused:

Wow, that's just awesome! Laponia?

No idea. I just searched long mountain valley

It's a bautiful shot... would definitely want it as a wallpaper if it was bigger.

» Sat May 14, 2011 7:19 pm

Don't care if fast travel is in or not. I still have hope for an in-game transportation system though.

» Sun May 15, 2011 12:26 am

Yes I know. I meant can you give a specific example please? How can viewing a sword in 3d in the inventory or a potion bottle solve a puzzle?

You find a normal looking sword in an unusual place. You examine it and and see that the handle is hollowed out. Unscrewing the bottom of the sword you find a map or a letter inside the hollowed handle of the blade. New Quest.

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:13 pm

http://montyoum.deviantart.com/journal/37829793/#comments I suggest you read point number 4 (although replace FF with TES, but the message is the same)

So true! The morrowind junkies don't realize the hardcoe daggerfall fans think morrowind was a step in the wrong direction.

» Sat May 14, 2011 8:16 pm

I do understand that there are fewer dungeons. About 70 fewer (from 200). But 130 is still too much I believe (for a size about the same of Oblivion). Oblivion was REALLY cramped up.

You and some folks here are overlooking a big fact here. Dungeons =/= All Locations.

Remember, there are still landmarks, cities, settlements, buildings, towns, unmarked locations and even shrines. This could make up for 200 locations.

» Sun May 15, 2011 2:34 am

I was thinking about the size being the same as Oblivion and I think that it will probably feel larger when in the world since there is more mountains that naturally stop you from running straight at a location as you could in Oblivion. having to run arround and over several mountains to get to a dungion will take a while and give many places for Bethesda to place dungions that will feel farther appart than in Oblivion.
I am really looking forward to this Game and I think that it will be a sure bet for Game of the Year

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:47 pm

Lemme try to clarify this for some worried folks.

In the GI issue, it mentioned how we can set 2 different things in each hand. It said you could do it with magic, with weapons, or anything else. It never mentioned you could combine two different spells to create some crazy awesome effect, it said we could combine put two of the same spells in each hand to make them extra powerful.

Now here is what you can do in Skyrim:

Left Hand Spell 1# vs 1H Right Hand Weapon = You can swing your weapon in the right hand, and cast spells with the left hand, and vice versa. Just like with Oblivion, but now there is no casting button, that means you wont be able to duel wield daggers and still cast spells, or use a shield and a sword and try to cast a spell.

Left Hand Spell 1# vs Right Hand Spell 2# = Like some games that allows duel wielding pistols, it will work pretty much the same. Shoot right spell, shoot left spell, or shoot right spell, shoot right spell again and then shoot left spell, or any combo in between. You can't combine both spells to create some physics law defying and crazy whacky spell.

Left Hand Spell 1# vs Right Hand Spell 1# = Same as above, but now you have the option to use them at the same time to double the power.

Some folks are also worried about spell creation, it will probably work the same as in Oblivion. You could create a spell with Fire, lighting and frost effect all together, it wouldn't have a different cool crazy shader effect, but it would still work.

Ahhh, that is much better. thanks for the aclaration!

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:55 pm

Actually,that is the heart of the Fast Travel problems.The game world was so dull that that wasn't really fun in walking from one city to another.So people cannot "not use if not want"...
Make the world interesting,and we will have an actual choice than.

Excuse me, but that is just your opinion. I literally do walk everywhere and I enjoy it immensely. And when I say walk, I do mean walk, not run like most people seem to call walking on this forum.

Walking gives me time to take in all the scenery and observe my surroundings. I have discovered lots of places, that if I was running past or riding past, I would have never discovered. Just becuase you don't get joy out of discovering new locations, doesn't mean that the world is dull to everyone.

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:34 pm

Actually,that is the heart of the Fast Travel problems.The game world was so dull that that wasn't really fun in walking from one city to another.So people cannot "not use if not want"...
Make the world interesting,and we will have an actual choice than.

You hit the nail on the head.

The REASON people were angry about fast travel in Oblivion is that it FELT LIKE YOU HAD TO USE IT. Why did we feel that? BECAUSE THE WORLD WAS BLAND AND BORING. If I didn't use it, I had to trudge across one of the most boring fantasy lands I've ever seen, next to crap like Narnia.

Fallout, New Vegas, and Red Dead Redemption didn't have that issue because their worlds were very well created and actually made me want to explore them. Using Fast Travel now felt like a choice because I either used it and got where I wanted fast, or I didn't use it and I got to see the great world.

Craft a beautiful world and we won't even think about fast travel, we'll be too busy looking at everything to care.

» Sun May 15, 2011 5:06 am

You find a normal looking sword in an unusual place. You examine it and and see that the handle is hollowed out. Unscrewing the bottom of the sword you find a map or a letter inside the hollowed handle of the blade. New Quest.

They said "view" an item not "take apart". And yes, I've played uncharted and don't recall viewing items in the inventory in 3d to solve puzzles. I remember looking at a journal but not a physical item.

» Sat May 14, 2011 9:28 pm

"All weapons have different properties, which you can take advantage of by choosing the right perks. Maces ignore a percentage of armor, and axes have bleed damage over time. "

That much seems interesting - provided the fights are up to scale. Could mean you can't get around all fights just hacking and slashing the same way all the way, that you have to think about your options for a tough fight "can't get rid of it with a standard blade, how about I come back with a axe and cumulated bleed damage", that sort of thing.

"You can use fast travel to revisit places you have visited earlier."

... Okay, mod then.

"Skyrim is approximately as big as Oblivion."

Since I believe Fallout was smaller, it is reassuring. Hope it's not too cramped-up - I kinda wish for a few howling expanses. That's personal though.

"Low-Fantasy"

*Cringes and tries to remember the screenshots so far are amazing*
Still, I hope it doesn't get to be a staple. Not sure we're going to ever see Elswyer overwise, and if we do, if we'll want to.

"The overarching narrative of the Dragons is less prominent than the Oblivion Gates were in Oblivion, which does not give you the feeling that you are doing 'useless' quests when you lay aside the Main Quest."

That's actually good news. I take it to mean we're not going to see them sprouting them anywhere, which kind of ruins the whole gravitas of it, and is sort of weird when you do something else "oh, excuse me big flamy hellish doors sprouting ruin on the whole of the country, I'm off to pick alchemy ingredients".

"Dungeons will be locked at their level once you have been there." (Once you go to a dungeon, it will remain lvl 5 when you entered it on lvl 5. This does not imply that all dungeons are level-scaled, it just confirms that dungeons don't change difficulties throughout your savegame after you have entered them.)

Well, this is better. Does that mean though that if I explore too much early on, everything will get stuck to my level ? Would be kinda worrying. I admit it, I'd rather have Dungeons their own level which smash me if I venture there too early. And what of loot ? I go at a dungeon at level 5, it's level 5 : what does that mean for any item (especially good and unique items) I happen to find ? :unsure:

"Every item has a 3D-preview in the Flash based inventory, which you can twist, turn, rotate, etc. Sometimes you will solve puzzles by anolyzing these 3D-previews. Not only armor and weapons can be explored in great detail, also small rings and herbs can be investigated from all possible angles. Every single item in the game can be previewed in the inventory screen." "
"More traps and puzzles."

I'm slightly more excited about this. Sounds good.

"The Dark Brotherhood is back."

And hopefully they've gone through puberty meanwhile. ...Okay, there's a guild of assassins, can't complain. Still wish we could get a glimpse of the Morag Tong, with the whole Vvardenfell situation.

The intro seems to be intriguing, at any rate.

» Sun May 15, 2011 4:38 am

I hope those 130 dungeons don't regenerate like in Oblivion and kill one of the few remaining reasons for me to explore.

Edit: yes I know that they are locked in level, but those scaled enemies and loot may respawn. I don't want that.

What exactly did you had in mind when you say that the dungeon is locked, but the enemies and loot isnt? whats left to be locked besides those two? To awnser your fears, the dungeon is locked, and so is the enemies that respawn there, so you can go back at a higher level and beat the crap out of them.

» Sun May 15, 2011 5:17 am

So true! The morrowind junkies don't realize the hardcoe daggerfall fans think morrowind was a step in the wrong direction.

SCHWING!
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8416/mapsizes.jpg

Looks like Skyrim will be joining Oblivion and Morrowind inside Daggerfall's Daggerfall.

» Sun May 15, 2011 3:01 am

http://montyoum.deviantart.com/journal/37829793/#comments I suggest you read point number 4 (although replace FF with TES, but the message is the same)

Oh dear God, you aren't actually comparing Final Fantasy to TES, are you? 'Let's take the 2 worst games we have ever made (ignoring the amorphous blob that was FF14), take the worst 'innovation' from one of them (the fact that it was a direct sequel) and slap it onto some old assets in order to rake in some money to prop up our failing MMO project, whilst still outsourcing as much as we can to China'.

That post/ idea reeks of brat. What other age group could stand the inexplicably awful dubbing in all of their games?

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:11 pm

Well I'm completely serius when I say I won't buy the game if its nothing but completely typichal rpg stuff like deers trolls minotaurs without a single unique thing you can't see in other games...

they are going to have some nice new things like mammoths, giant spiders, ice wraiths, and most likely even more that they haven't informed us on yet.
oh yea, and there are dragons. :celebration:

» Sat May 14, 2011 8:05 pm

You hit the nail on the head.

The REASON people were angry about fast travel in Oblivion is that it FELT LIKE YOU HAD TO USE IT. Why did we feel that? BECAUSE THE WORLD WAS BLAND AND BORING. If I didn't use it, I had to trudge across one of the most boring fantasy lands I've ever seen, next to crap like Narnia.

Fallout, New Vegas, and Red Dead Redemption didn't have that issue because their worlds were very well created and actually made me want to explore them. Using Fast Travel now felt like a choice because I either used it and got where I wanted fast, or I didn't use it and I got to see the great world.

Craft a beautiful world and we won't even think about fast travel, we'll be too busy looking at everything to care.

Agree one hundred percent!

You mentioned RDR, it wasn't really detailed and full of stuff, but it was beautiful and very realistic, plus the random encounters (which are now going to be present in Skyrim too, thanks to Radiant Story.

) made every horse trip unique and enjoyable.

Riding with your horse, during noon watching wolves hunting their prayer, and the occasional bandits causing chaos. Skyrim will most likely be like that.

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:21 pm

They said "view" an item not "take apart". And yes, I've played uncharted and don't recall viewing items in the inventory in 3d to solve puzzles. I remember looking at a journal but not a physical item.

There could be various clues inscribed on an artifact that you need to refer to to solve a puzzle in order to find a location, or unlock a particular door, etc.

» Sat May 14, 2011 8:17 pm

Maybe its because the official opinion on this forum isn't the be all and end all of TES fans? :ermm: Todd said that he looked at a VARIETY of sources to see what the fans wanted, which is far from ignoring the fanbase. He's just not going to cater to every beckon and whim of the Morrowind groupies, a few of whom will knock down ANY change, even if it objectively suits the game better. :rolleyes:

The fact that there are at all "morrowind groupies" and "diehard" Daggerfall fans after all this time is a testament to the value and depth of those games. Oblivion could never inspire such feelings and neither can the majority of games nowadays to be frank, so a healthy dose of scepticism about overhyped changes might not be a bad idea. I totaly agree with your explanation concerning the "ignoring the fanbase" comments.

» Sat May 14, 2011 4:33 pm

The size of the game world is disappointing.