DwarfDwemerElfBreton confusion here....

Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:19 am

I mean really now... please explain a few things for me on Skyrims time line and the lore of the past:

1. According to the new lore, all mages, independent colleges/schools, mysteriously got stupid in the
past 200 yrs. i.e. since the Mages Guild/ Arcane University fell. We're supposed to believe that spell craft has seriously diminished for this reason? Com'on.

2. I understand that Tamriel, was basically, all elven, of one type or another, but how does one compare
any kind of elf to "dwarves"? Since so little is known about them, except by a couple of extremely old, snowelf brothers, where in the old lore is it written that dwarves were elves?

3. Wow...I mean, damn...Skyrim is so cold, and of such high altitude, that the province can actually
change the racial abilities of both man and mer alike...Wow!!! Bretons really got shafted, where as
High Elves actually improved in these northern climates...I guess those northern lights are some Aldmeri/psjic orders way of reenslaving mankind. How does TES lore explain this?

4. I can understand that weapons and armor can change with the times.....except Dwemer items. They
are locked in time, with no possiblity of change...hmmm. Since we are to believe that Dwemer armor
is actually the "shells" of old Dwemer autotrons, and we now know that autotrons are still kickin' it in
Skyrim; why haven't we seen these "armored" autotrons? Please do tell.

5. Has Skyrim basically changed all the rules in TES lore?
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Melanie Steinberg
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:20 am

1) Not sure where you're getting this from. However, the fall of the one universal school of magic would lead to a general decline in widely-available scholarship. Not quite as drastic as the "Dark Ages" of Europe, but a similar concept.
2) The "Dwarves" are Dwemer, which we have plenty of depictions of. They are called Dwarves because the Giants named them such, and everyone is a dwarf to a giant.
3) Gameplay, not lore.
4) Dwemer armor actually does look quite a bit like Dwemer autonomata. However, I'm pretty sure that Oblivion (and Skyrim?) Dwemer armor isn't solely derived from centurion bits. It more closely resembles the armor we know to have been worn by the actual Dwemer.
5) No. Just no.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:08 am

I'll answer no.2.

The Dwemer were called Dwarves by the giants who lived in Vvardenfell at the time. Compare to the giants they're small in stature like dwarves. Hence the name. Also the the name "Dwemer" means Deep Elves in their tongue. Dwe= Deep and Mer=Elves.

Here's some info on them:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/definitive-guide-dwemer
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Kelvin Diaz
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:39 pm

1. Actually, what we see in Skyrim is a combination of a total collapse of Mage support groups (like the Mage's Guild) and the Nordic distrust for magic. Nords (and Redguards) simply do not like magic, viewing it as dangerous and unfair. Nords, in the past, made use of it, but not so much anymore. So it's no surprize that the College of Winterhold was blamed for the damage to Winterhold, and that it has basically isolated itself from the larger world. No mage group became "stupid." Many collapsed (the Mages Guild,) were (presumably) repurposed by the Thalmor, or retreated (such as the Psijic Order.) While the end result looks the same, it's for different reasons. I'm sure that magic is faring better in Cyrodiil or Summerset Isle.

2. In Morrowind, we actually get to see a few Dwarven/Dwemer Ghosts and meet one in person. Aside from the in-person one (who is basically a disease-ridden upper 2/3rds of a person) they are clearly elven- same size as Men and Mer.

3. Well, if you trace back the racial lineages from Arena, each race changed, sometimes drastically, in their starting skills over the course of a 40-year period. This is purely for gameplay reasons, aside from the Khajiit, nobody seems to notice how different races are from game to game... and with the Khajiit, they have like half a dozen seperate breeds, so you've got that explanation as to why they're different.

4. Some dwarven armor is repurposed dwemer centurions, others are actually forged armor specifically to be worn by the dwarves. Sometimes (such as with Morrowind) it can go either way. And in Skyrim, Dwarven Armor is an armor type that you can forge from using Dwarven metal ingots. And I belive that this explanation is NOT part of gameplay.

5. Not really. Skyrim has added to the lore and shifted a few things around (such as Whiterun's location and the original purpose of the blades) but it certanly hasn't stomped all over the lore.
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Sylvia Luciani
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:56 am

The other point about the terms Dwarven or Dwemer when applied to armor or weapons is that it refers to material and style, rather than "actually made by a person who disappeared a long time ago".
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Facebook me
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:55 pm

1) Not sure where you're getting this from. However, the fall of the one universal school of magic would lead to a general decline in widely-available scholarship. Not quite as drastic as the "Dark Ages" of Europe, but a similar concept.
2) The "Dwarves" are Dwemer, which we have plenty of depictions of. They are called Dwarves because the Giants named them such, and everyone is a dwarf to a giant.
3) Gameplay, not lore.
4) Dwemer armor actually does look quite a bit like Dwemer autonomata. However, I'm pretty sure that Oblivion (and Skyrim?) Dwemer armor isn't solely derived from centurion bits. It more closely resembles the armor we know to have been worn by the actual Dwemer.
5) No. Just no.
Thanx. In regards to #1., I'm pretty sure I read it in passing, in one of Skyrims new books. I'll try to dig up the name of it.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:22 am

I'll answer no.2.

The Dwemer were called Dwarves by the giants who lived in Vvardenfell at the time. Compare to the giants they're small in stature like dwarves. Hence the name. Also the the name "Dwemer" means Deep Elves in their tongue. Dwe= Deep and Mer=Elves.

Here's some info on them:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/definitive-guide-dwemer
Ah yes, Deep Elves, I remember now.....Thanx.
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Tiffany Carter
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:53 pm

1. Actually, what we see in Skyrim is a combination of a total collapse of Mage support groups (like the Mage's Guild) and the Nordic distrust for magic. Nords (and Redguards) simply do not like magic, viewing it as dangerous and unfair. Nords, in the past, made use of it, but not so much anymore. So it's no surprize that the College of Winterhold was blamed for the damage to Winterhold, and that it has basically isolated itself from the larger world. No mage group became "stupid." Many collapsed (the Mages Guild,) were (presumably) repurposed by the Thalmor, or retreated (such as the Psijic Order.) While the end result looks the same, it's for different reasons. I'm sure that magic is faring better in Cyrodiil or Summerset Isle.

2. In Morrowind, we actually get to see a few Dwarven/Dwemer Ghosts and meet one in person. Aside from the in-person one (who is basically a disease-ridden upper 2/3rds of a person) they are clearly elven- same size as Men and Mer.

3. Well, if you trace back the racial lineages from Arena, each race changed, sometimes drastically, in their starting skills over the course of a 40-year period. This is purely for gameplay reasons, aside from the Khajiit, nobody seems to notice how different races are from game to game... and with the Khajiit, they have like half a dozen seperate breeds, so you've got that explanation as to why they're different.

4. Some dwarven armor is repurposed dwemer centurions, others are actually forged armor specifically to be worn by the dwarves. Sometimes (such as with Morrowind) it can go either way. And in Skyrim, Dwarven Armor is an armor type that you can forge from using Dwarven metal ingots. And I belive that this explanation is NOT part of gameplay.

5. Not really. Skyrim has added to the lore and shifted a few things around (such as Whiterun's location and the original purpose of the blades) but it certanly hasn't stomped all over the lore.
Very insightful.Thanx.
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Kevin S
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:39 pm

The other point about the terms Dwarven or Dwemer when applied to armor or weapons is that it refers to material and style, rather than "actually made by a person who disappeared a long time ago".
I really ought to to back play here, as it seems I'm being to literal. Is there any other info about the armor? My main source of education is from the books of TES 4.
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Tinkerbells
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:39 am

I really ought to to back play here, as it seems I'm being to literal. Is there any other info about the armor? My main source of education is from the books of TES 4.
Just look at the armor in TES 4...did it look like it was made of spare parts? It looked like something specifically crafted as armor to me.
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Céline Rémy
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Ah yes, Deep Elves, I remember now.....Thanx.

No problem. I forgot to mention that the term Dwarf is only used by the ignorant man races now, to describe the Dwemer. Like the term Dark Elf is used by them to describe the Dunmer. Both refer to themselves as their Mer names.
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Charlie Sarson
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:29 am

For question 4, the Dwemer armour isn't a particular Dwemer automatons armour, but rather just a collection of mismatched pieces of various automatons (is that the correct plural?). Source for that is http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ruins-kemel-ze
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:11 am

Just look at the armor in TES 4...did it look like it was made of spare parts? It looked like something specifically crafted as armor to me.
I agree. TES4 armor looked like it was designed by a high maintenance battle-mage. I thought it was really cool looking, too bad it's stats weren't that high....which brings me to another oddity....Dwemer armor is now better than Orc armor, yet, is on the lower end of the Smithing tree perks...odd.
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Sammi Jones
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:48 pm

No problem. I forgot to mention that the term Dwarf is only used by the ignorant man races now, to describe the Dwemer. Like the term Dark Elf is used by them to describe the Dunmer. Both refer to themselves as their Mer names.
Yup, that's me...see what happens when ya get laid up in a VA hospital, and they recommend video games as therapy. Going from Zelda on Game Cube to Oblivion on a 360...quite the leap. Anyway, my dexterity, and mental cogs are getting better. Thanx for the remedial education.
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:13 pm

Im pretty sure that the answer to #1 is.

-Nords dont like magic, so it wouldnt be used much there anyway. (And the Mages Guild never had much of a presence in Skyrim)
-Spellmaking wasnt implemented because of how the current magic system works.
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Danny Warner
 
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Post » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:04 am

I mean really now... please explain a few things for me on Skyrims time line and the lore of the past:

1. According to the new lore, all mages, independent colleges/schools, mysteriously got stupid in the
past 200 yrs. i.e. since the Mages Guild/ Arcane University fell. We're supposed to believe that spell craft has seriously diminished for this reason? Com'on.

Yes. The Mages Guild existed for the preservation and distribution of magical knowledge which they largely monopolised. When it falls, those things go with it. That's not to say that the magic is completely forgotten; it's just difficult to find any mages teaching it. The Psijic Order are elitist. Telvanni only share knowledge when it suits them and they just don't like most of the outside world. The Synod forbids conjuration. The College of Winterhold will teach its own members, but they are far smaller organisation than the Mages Guild was so their library isn't as extensive as the entire guild's collection and they lack the manpower for comparable amounts of research.
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Rebecca Clare Smith
 
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