I don't understand why people miss this part out.

x100

I really hope this thread came from general, or the Lore section is going down hill fast.
Was wondering how all those generic people (names not worth mentioning) turned up in the Lore section.

Come on. Firsthold held many immigrants, so Ayleid blood isn't out of the question. And royals inbreed. The Swedish royal family is barely Swedish. I just think it would a turn of events that could lead to a cool story in the future. It's idle speculation. And it's not implausible. I don't think he is pure Ayleid. I'm sure you all have beliefs in TES that are yours only. I just think that it would be a cool turn in events if Ocato ends up ruling Cyrodiil and is part Ayleid. Sorry if this somehow offends. If someone comes out and says Ocato is not Ayleid for this reason and this, or if a dev says he's not, I'll just let this concept go.

Remember all of those stories are metaphoric, there would be no tearing out of any hearts between lorkhan and anuiel because niether have hearts, Like Sithis, both Anuiel and the lessor lorkhan are more forces than they are dieties, i never read that whole story, but i ran across one about Anuiel and Sithis and lorkhan and so on. (you did mean anuiel right?)

*oh yeah, is there any hard eveidence that all of the Dwemer died out because of their attempt to gain trancendence, or could they have just obtained it, trancended reality and that's why we don't see any of em?*

Dwemer are elves. Hence the "mer" suffix. They lived in Morrowind but dissapeared when Kargrenac used his tools on the heart of Lhorkan to create a dwemer god. What happened exactly is a mystery. But the general theories are that:
* The Dwemer were removed from the face of Tamriel due to their blasphemous action, or
* that Kargrenac warped the entire dwemer race into Oblivion.

There is one dwemer left though. His name is Yagrum Bagarn and he is residing in the Corprus Dungeon of Telvanni wizard Divayth Fyr.

Now to the dwarves thing. At one time the dwemer lives in Morrowind, alongside with a race of Giants. The giants thought that the dwemer people, who are of the same size as the Dunmer, were really small, as compared to them. So they gave them the name Dwarves.

This has largely been adopted by the empire. Hence the use of both names.

So they are of the elven race, but got their dwarven name from their giant neighbours.

No. Lorkhan and Auriel were as real as the Daedra. In fact, you see the avatar if Auriel, otherwise known as Akatosh (sort of), in Oblivion and Lorkhan's heart indeed rests in the Red Mountain. And Lorkhan is not the lessor, or the greater. They are equal, Lorkhan the padomaic god of Space and Auriel the Anuic god of Time. They are the flip sides of the same coin, and as such equal. They may be in fact, one in the same, one mad god.



Vivec says he cannot see them.

So who's heart is laying in Red Mountain then?

I think you've got Anui-el confused with Auri-El.



We've got Baladas mentioning that the Dwemer found ways to go from the profane to the sacred. We have a cultural back ground in which mer believe they were part of a god. We've got this big giant Dwemer machine about the size of a God and we've got Xal saying the Dwemer became the skin of it. Then we have the Heart of Lorkhan with the enchantments capable of making something divine. The Brass God/Anumidium even walked about distorting time like all new gods do in High Rock.

Seems to me there is plenty of stuff pointing in the direction that they were trying to become a God but messed up and got stuck in a giant robot.

So how drunk do you think they were when that was thought up?

Wait, what? Where does it say Firsthold, a major Altmer city in a xenophobic nation where banishment was once reportedly tantamount to death (at least before the third era), holds a lot of immigrants? And doesn't inbreeding as a means of keeping the bloodline pure kind of argue against the idea of interbreeding with mainland rabble like the Ayleids, considering how much the Altmer strive for purity?

The Dwemer bring this to mind: http://rememberbender.ytmnd.com/

Also, @ proweler: Very, very drunk.

Edit: I in no way meant to troll. That episode of Futurama is honestly the first thing that comes to mind for me whenever I think about the Dwemer. Honestly, it's just mind-boggling.

Edit2: Reasons why the Dwemer failed.
-They forgot to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow.
-Phazers were set to stun.
-The lens was clouded.
-It was a Leap Year.
-They were all following an idea that was stupid from the beginning and would never work because it contradicts some if not many of certain sets of laws and protocol involving what they attempted to do meant to prevent it.

Edit3: There's also the awkward theory I now propose that it did work, but instead of making them gods it just imbued their spirits into the very automatons that wander the halls of their former domains, minds shattered beyond recognizable existence and diluted to what could easily be construed as nonsapience, Again, this theory is built without any evidence to prove or deny it. Just a random crackpot theory to further confuse as so many books in Morrowind were so greatly effiicient with.

Edit4: Crackpot theory 2: They were all turned into a metallic nanitic ooze that seeped into Nirn and which will one day rise up, turning the entirety of the world into a metallic, Mirrodin-esque sphere of metallic monstrosity.

Edit5: I'll leave it at this. Regardless of whether they became the skin of their brass god or ceased to exist, an entire race snuffed out with the snap of a finger... the jedis must've felt that one.

As Ayleids are a type of Altmer. The break only happened between 200 and 300 years before. I doubt they would be that upset, especially since they were fleeing from a major enemy. The Ayleids fled primarily into Valenwood. But since Valenwood and Summurset have been united for a long time, since 830 2nd age... and Firsthold is the city closest to Valenwood (maybe second to Skywatch), it's far from inconcievable.
Again, I'm not changing my mind on this, unless a Dev or former Dev (like MK or Tedders) says otherwise or their is definate proof that he has no Ayleid blood in him, instead "He's from Firsthold." which seems to all everyone is saying. At the same time, I know I'm not going to able to convince anyone, because it is just my hope. So I'm not going to try.

- They lacked a Mantella.

Or maybe they had too powerful of a mantella and blew a fuse.

"The first to see him was the Shop Foremer, Kagrenac of Vvardenfell, the wisest of the tonal architects [Mechanists - MN] Do not think as others do that Kagrenac created the Anumidum for petty motivations, such as a refutation of the gods. Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence. But, by then, and for a long time coming, the Doom of the Dwarves marched upon the Mountain and they were removed from this world."

Kagrenac had the tools to construct a Mantella, but not the Mantella itself. He didn't manage to build one in time and then the Dunmer were knocking on his door. The Mantella came much later, with the rise of Tiber Septim.

A mantella? Isn't a mantella a type of frog? Or is it just Mantle by another name?

But weren't they going to use the Heart of Lorkhan as the power source, instead of a Mantella? Because wasn't the Mantella the heart of the Underking?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Mantella, as in Crux of Transcendence. Here's something to http://search.freefind.com/find.html?pageid=r&id=72791987&mode=ALL&query=Mantella&ics=1&fr=0.

What proves it's a heart?

The thing Zurin Arctus made was called 'the Mantella' which is a Mantella, just like the one Kargrenac originally build. Because Vivec didn't trade the Heart of Lorkhan allong with the Numidium, Arctus had to create a replacement.



Everything, unless you're a Dwemer.

In which case you deny that the heart even exists at all.

(and whip out your logician's tools and cutting globes, and build a test case scenario which proves empirically that the heart does not exist, and use this as irrefutable proof that absolute proofs are contrived, and thus impossible.)

I don't think Dwemer opinion counts for much at present for some reason.

I dont know--- The Tribunal seemed to have made out QUITE well by using their handiwork......... I'd say that they werent 'Wrong'--- just a little over-zealous.


(Also, Vivec spent a LOT of time in the temple of false thinking. If ever there was a Dwemer sounding religious order, that sounds like it would apply!)

You trust everything?

What is there not to trust?

It's all based on a creation myth. Most people don't trust multiples of those.

Almost all our knowledge of mythical history and the nature of the Mundus comes from a strange consensus in the fables of the mortal races.

We trust an 'everything 'or a grand coincidence.