Dwemer cities : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:26 pm

It occurred to me the other day, these cities are approaching 4000yrs old are they not?

How are they still standing much less functioning?

Do the automatons keep them "alive"?
Is there something specifically written in lore to explain this?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:47 pm

The dwemer were really good with metal and construction. They even bent the Earthbones to keep their metals so pristine, in large part.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:04 am

My understanding is the animunculi maintain them. They can't fix everything, but they can preform some maintenance and keep some things functioning.

However I think it's primarily that Dwemer building materials stand up well to the passage of time.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:10 am

Their materials violate natural laws of controlling the processes of weathering and corrosion.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:34 am

In Skyrim I saw a Dwemer spider hacking away at a fence inside a ruin as if trying to fix something.
Might have been a bug (gotten stuck somehow?) or maybe a scripted little event, who knows. Lore-wise, the spiders keep things in check, though. Some are even named "Worker Spider" in Skyrim.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Yeah, I've noticed the spiders "working" as well. That's kind of what prompted this thread.

Are the spiders sentient?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:18 am

Yeah, I've noticed the spiders "working" as well. That's kind of what prompted this thread.

Are the spiders sentient?

They don't appear to be, no.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:44 am

Can somebody fill me in on this whole magical metal thing? Don't remember hearing about it.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:22 pm

Can somebody fill me in on this whole magical metal thing? Don't remember hearing about it.

Effectively, Dwemer metal is practically immune to any form of rust, decay, or other frailties, even over a period of thousands of years. No one has been able to reproduce this, so exactly how it works is a mystery.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:29 pm

If that's the case, why is there busted steam pipes all over the place?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:19 am

If that's the case, why is there busted steam pipes all over the place?

Some options:
1) Four millennia of would-be adventures banging on the pipes to break them free only to get attacked by the mechs before they can make off with their prize. In Skyrim this works particularly well since you can use the pipes as scrap metal for ingots.
2) Some pipes are better made than others. The shoddy ones actually break down after a few thousand years, while the better made ones don't.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:24 am

If that's the case, why is there busted steam pipes all over the place?

There's a difference between something that won't decay and something that's invincible. Dwemer metal is the former. It will never be changed by chemical weathering or other factors into something that isn't dwemer metal. You can still break dwemer metal into pieces, or melt it down, etc, it just won't ever rust or decay into something other than dwemer metal.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:17 am

So this being the case, why have they degraded at all, aside from adventures taking trinkets?

I can only assume that they've built the cities from stone, but I don't know otherwise to say conclusively.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:21 am

So this being the case, why have they degraded at all, aside from adventures taking trinkets?

I can only assume that they've built the cities from stone, but I don't know otherwise to say conclusively.

Dwemer cities are in fact largely built from stone, with their machines, many personal effects, art and other items being built of their metal.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:03 am

Dwemer cities are in fact largely built from stone, with their machines, many personal effects, art and other items being built of their metal.

That researcher/author in Markarth actually makes a point of noting in his books how stone is the predominant feature of Dwarven architecture, and he suspects that stoneworking represents an earlier technological development than their famed metallurgy which was just tacked on later basically.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:51 pm

That researcher/author in Markarth actually makes a point of noting in his books how stone is the predominant feature of Dwarven architecture, and he suspects that stoneworking represents an earlier technological development than their famed metallurgy which was just tacked on later basically.

Yep. Though even in Morrowind you can notice a distinct presence of stonework.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:22 am

I remember the architecture being vastly different in Morrowind.

Is there a reason for this?
Is one set of ruins older then another?

Where there different tribes/clans of Dwemer that had different takes of the same technology?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:11 am

I remember the architecture being vastly different in Morrowind.

Is there a reason for this?
Is one set of ruins older then another?

Where there different tribes/clans of Dwemer that had different takes of the same technology?

I think there were discrete Dwemer cultures; the Vvardenfell Dwemer had a different culture than the Hammerfell Dwemer, and presumably the Skyrim ones.
I could be completely wrong.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:16 am

Where was the Dwemer center of power?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:31 am

I think there were discrete Dwemer cultures; the Vvardenfell Dwemer had a different culture than the Hammerfell Dwemer, and presumably the Skyrim ones.
I could be completely wrong.

The one's in Hammerfell and Skyrim split from the one's in Morrowind, or primarily Vvardenfell years before the dissapearance because they disagreed with some policy changes. It is entirely possible that they in the time between that and their dissapearance made some changes to their architecture. Another reason for changes can simlpy be found in the different climate and the ground they dug into. Vvardenfell is valconic, Skyrim is cold and freezing Hammerfell is a desert all three should therefor have some differences already, even when not accounting for cultural changes.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:40 am

Novadays there're quite a few alloys which really can withstand corrosion even for such large periods of time.

As to why some of them have rusted and some have not, I can assume that the conditions could bedifferent - water vapor, gases, etc.

Now that was from a modern material engeneer's point of view.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:29 am

Novadays there're quite a few alloys which really can withstand corrosion even for such large periods of time.

As to why some of them have rusted and some have not, I can assume that the conditions could bedifferent - water vapor, gases, etc.

Now that was from a modern material engeneer's point of view.

I appreciate where you're coming from, but its hard to apply modern logic to elements of Nirn.

Another thing that I've often wondered.
Is there any texts remaining from the Dwemer?

Anything at all?
I'm currently trying to discover all of the ruins in Skyrim to find things.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:22 am

I remember the architecture being vastly different in Morrowind.

Is there a reason for this?
Is one set of ruins older then another?

Where there different tribes/clans of Dwemer that had different takes of the same technology?

I think the simplest answer is that the game-building technology is better now. The Dwemer ruins in Morrowind looked very sparse compared to those in Skyrim... I think the devs just have finally got the technology to really bring their vision to it's proper form.

For a more lore-friendly explanation, it could be that skyrim has much better stone for them to carve their homes out of. If I remember correctly, the Morrowind ruins were mostly metallic in construction... Could be that the stone around red mountain just wasn't suited to carving vast halls into.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 am

If that's the case, why is there busted steam pipes all over the place?

Their materials can withstand thousands of years of wear and tear in relatively protected environments. Anything with hot gasses coursing through it under pressure is going to need regular maintenance.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:56 am

I think the simplest answer is that the game-building technology is better now. The Dwemer ruins in Morrowind looked very sparse compared to those in Skyrim... I think the devs just have finally got the technology to really bring their vision to it's proper form.

For a more lore-friendly explanation, it could be that skyrim has much better stone for them to carve their homes out of. If I remember correctly, the Morrowind ruins were mostly metallic in construction... Could be that the stone around red mountain just wasn't suited to carving vast halls into.

The biggest difference I think is the doors.
Skyrim Dwemer have big brass/gold conventional style doors. Morrowind Dwemer have Orb shaped sliding doors.