Ever had Mara, Tedders, and MK in the same thread together? I think you would change your mind.

You're ignoring the Dwemers mass disappearance, which coincided with Kargrenac's use of the tools. As well as the surrounding information that hints at a reversal of the profaning process that has over time transformed the original gods into Dwemer.

With a mythic history in which the gods had to make children to last, in effect divided themselves amongst many, a reversal of this process where many become one, is more then simple imagery.

The information from Xal does not stand on it's own. Baladas repeats it in a more generic manner. Trebonius quest to find the answer the disappearance of the Dwemer can be completed when you've gathered this information.

If somebody thinks they can out do Lugars explanation, either by extending or providing a better alternative, I'd be delighted too see it though.

---

Weird:

Arguments from an authoritative point aren't good for the Lore, it needs the abbility to be doubted or it loses it's charm. It's not a matter of simply making your own truth but if a better explanation exists then what can directly inferred from existing information, it should be heard. Not that I'm seeing any here though.

I suppose... The creative process IS bi-directional. (IIRC, MK has outright stolen a few ideas presented in here.) However, when it comes to an idea that is allready set in stone so to speak (published, with gamesas logos all over it) I think the original authors have the final say in such a thing. MK is like a magician, he will NEVER straight come out with his tricks--- and he relishes speculation over his intent; that is, he LIKES being mysterious and inscrutable. T o me, that just makes it even more difficult to countermand when he DOES throw a bone, like he did in this case.

Well, when the doubt comes from arguments over the creative process and developer squabbles (imagined or otherwise) and not lore, be as authoritarian as you need to be to get the hell back on track.

Ahem. Tribunal lol

Not to mention that if we knew for sure what happened to them, it'd make the Dwemer seem far less interesting.

The Dwemer have plenty of other interesting facets and mysteries plus there are still aspects of this one still unknown (and/or at least not addressed in the article) even if the theory is accepted...

Oh yeah, I know lots of anthropologists who totally decided to leave their field just because discovering new information wasn't as good as maintaining a tingly glow of mystery for eternity.

This is why I've been here so long and haven't bothered to get to know people better. Because ignorance is so much better than discovery.

This isn't real life. The elements of a game seem more mysterious when stuff isn't fully revealed. The devs could easily tell the answer directly. Heck, they could come up with a completely new explanation. After all, it isn't real.

Well, that is more or less the meaning of mysterious. The question is whether it's better. And sometimes the things we know are better than the things we don't know. A good mystery is one whose answer is worth finding out, as is this one, the answer of which fits quite snugly within the rest of the lore. A bad mystery is one with no answer used to disguise poor storytelling, which is what some people want to turn this into.


I believe oen kind of did.


So you keep saying, but I fail to see your point. Literature has its own rules. You're also talking about appeal, which is a real life thing.

But the appeal of it was that there is no certain answer, much like the mysteries in real life.


So show me where the dev said it.


In real life, people relentlessly search for the truth. In our case, the devs decide that the truth is, if there is one.

And I say that's mushy crap, and a good answer serves just as well.


http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=482103&view=findpost&p=6918676


These are not mutually exclusive unless you think they change the answer on a whim.

So we have different tastes. Big deal. It makes it feel more like reality if we can't be certain of the answer.

It was MK. The things that he says are never what they seem to mean.

But with fiction, nothing is set in stone. At least not until the author kicks the bucket.

Indeed. Big deal. But you realise you're arguing there should be no answer because it would make you happeir that way?


Now you're just being silly. He wasn't even in his riddle mode.


"See this target. Aim for it. Woops, sorry, forgot to tell you it moves all the time. More fun that way, huh. Wait, what are you doing... no...not at me... please don't.... aaaaaah."

It adds to the mystique of it.

So he wasn't. At least not until he said "eighty years ago". But he was quoting an in-universe character.


Fine, don't give an intellectual rebuttal. Although because everything Elder Scrolls is property of Bethesda, it won't be written in stone ever, because even if Bethesda goes under (not that it will, of course), another company could probably acquire the rights to it, like with the Might and Magic series.

I thought so.


A joke.


Why? You'd just shift the goalposts again, from "the devs decide the truth" to "oh, but that dev is shifty, even though he worked heavily on the dwemer" to meaningless philosophisiing about how all lore answers are fruitless because truth can be decided by devs who haven't been born yet.


I really don't care about future retcons. If you can't see why arguing against pieces of lore you don't like because of possible retcons in the future is silly, then there really is no hope. I'd prefer to deal with what's been said.

First, I was put under the impression that a dev directly said it, not quoted it from an in-universe character. I don't question the devs (although MK is good at making stuff more confusing, just not right now), but he took it from an in-universe character. How do we know that Xal knows for sure?

I think you missed another bit of Sarcism there.

Anyhow, the onion theory would apply for anthropology here. Every time you pull back a layer of mystery another layer is under neath.

I'd have to agree with both sides. Like Crimson Paladin, I do like the air of mystique. But the reason I like it is because I'd like to know the real answer! Having said that, I agree with Luagar2 that the Dwemer have enough to sustain their mystique even if their eventual fate were known for sure. Their alien mindset with it's negation philosophy/methodology, for example - we've only gotten little glimpses of this so far. But again though, part of the appeal for me is wanting to find out. I'm happy to let the mystique go after a while. I can always look elsewhere for a mystique fix.

Er, because he MK confirmed the words of the in-universe character by out-of-universe explication? I thought that obvious.

MK, obvious? Yeah right.

If their souls were fed to create Numidium's skin, I still doubt that any spirits would be left behind. And for that matter, I'd expect their bodies to be left behind as well.

I thought we nailed this goalpost down. You already said you understood what he wrote. And even if he's given to being vague, it doesn't follow every last word is liable to misinterpretation.


Haven't other people been over this?


One would think the piles of ash amidst fallen armour is a good indication...

I'm sick of defending a valid theory. Because anyone can attack a theory while not showing any sign of willing to back up why they attack it. I will take you up on something you said in this thread. Theories are constantly challenged. Go, challenge the theory, go, study the sources, the hints, ingame information, every scrap you can find on the Dwemer and form a counter theory. Go ahead, I dare you. Be sure to back up your sources, developer quotes are welcome, too. Come on, can't be that hard. Go and back up your point of view. Maybe we really have missed something and you are the saviour who bringsu s to light?
Until then, though, the Dwemer-became-Anumidum theory is valid and the best theory around here that fits with all the given information. No matter how much you practice disbelief to a point of stubbornness. (Notice something? It's what the Dwemre did, too, and look what became of them).

OK, I'll lay off MK, and I'll admit that he sometimes tells stuff straight. But I'm still taking the explanation with a grain of salt. Not to mention that MK also said that he "hid crap in fake interviews".


When something has its soul ripped from its body, the corpse is left behind. Baladas said that the Dwemer did not leave corpses behind; we don't know for sure if the Dwemer in the Mournhold ruin were even destroyed at the same time, and it is possible that they weren't, given the lack of ash piles in any of the Vvardenfell ruins. If there is something to the theory, then there's more to it than what he gave.


Is it not? We're arguing about fiction. It in itself is meaningless, get over it. And MK is known for being cryptic. If I had known that you were referring to MK, I would have said it sooner.


I'm not attacking the theory, I'm just not fully accepting it as established fact. I feel there's more to it.

Okay, at first I thought you were a failed crack at the Turing Test, hence the skewed logic, lack of humour, and dismissals so vague they seem pre-programmed responses. Now I'm convinced you're being contrary for the sake of trollishness. No one else would make a metafictional dismissal of the very subject to which this forum's existence is dedicated just to distract from their own equivocation. I'm still not sure if you're deliberately misinterpreting "crap" in the context of MK's post. I'm done here. I need goalposts that don't move so much.