In most games it's an easy concept: you die and your soul goes either to a good place (Heaven-like) or a bad place (Hell-like). Now in TES we do have both, Aetherius and Oblivion, but it does not work that way. As far as I can recall, all souls go to Aetherius after the mortal shape has been destroyed. But this does not fit somehow.

In Skyrim we find Shors Hall in Sovngarde... a place like the nordic Valhalla. So it is my understanding that you have to BELIEVE in Sovngarde to get there. Or is it just a racial thing... Nords go to Sovngarde, Imperials go to etc. etc. Would be pretty racist but thats not the point. My point is: are all places like Sovngarde were the mortals just live in immortal bodies forever and after? What happens in a recarnation? Did Nerevars soul just disappear when the Nerevarine was born? And what happened when the Nerevarine died. Did the soul reappear in 'Heaven' with the knowledge of two lifes?

And then... what about the Undead. What happened there? I do not really understand the concept. You trap something within a soul gem - like the soul of a Giant per example. Then you can enchant a weapon or armor with it. Same goes for humans (and elfes, beast folk, etc.), but they have to be captured in a black soul gem (like they are something superior...). But whats with the Zombies from Oblivion? Were are their souls? Are they just the bodies revived without the soul? Or is their soul controled by a Necromancer? If so, how? What happens if a Necromancer turns himself into a Lich. Where does his soul go?

In Skyrim we see 3 types of Undead. The Draugr, which are somehow slaves to the Dragon priests (is it the same concept of Necromancers and Zombies? Think not, because they are literally evil when they laugh their a$$es off when they try to kill you), the Dragon priests themselfes and not the least to mention: the Dragons themselfs. They are resurrected by Alduin from... where exactly? Do they have their own 'Heaven' and can be summond by that big, world-eating Necromancer?

I know, much of it has just gameplay reasons, but still...

A very interesting topic, to say the least. Unfortunately I don't believe a legitimate answer exists to this date.

When your mortal body is destroyed, your soul can go to a number of different places depending on certain factors of your life, the most dominant of which is where you held your allegiance.

First, if you're a werewolf, you go to Hircine's Hunting Grounds to be a werewolf forever. No questions asked.
If you pledged allegiance to a Daedric Prince, then your soul will go to their respective Daedric realm.
If you're a True Nord at heart* and died with courage and valor, you go to Sovngarde.
If you follow the Nine Divine or are otherwise unaffiliated, you go to the Dreamsleeve to be wiped clean and reinserted into Mundus.
And sometimes your soul gets pulled out of the Dreamsleeve and reserved for reincarnation, but that is rare and the details aren't clear.

*You don't have to be a Nord to be a True Nord.

As far as Undead, things like zombies and skeletons are just reanimated corpses. Their souls are gone. Liches still retain their souls, but the soul gets corrupted in the process. Details on Lichdom are still vague, intentionally so.

What we do know for a fact is that, unlike D&D, liches do not have a phylactery.

A Necromancer that turns himself into a Lich binds his soul to a certain object during the process of transformation. Just look at Jagar Tharn, he put his life force in that jem. When it broke, he died. A necromancer does something like that until he can turn into a lich. As for undead, I always presumed they're soul is stuck in whatever form they are in, and that form needs to be destroyed for them to be free. Some are bound to the plane by someone else's doing, as with the case of Zombies, or by some regret keeping the soul on the plane, as with ghosts. But some ghosts are bound by Necromancers to mundus. Just look at morrowind, the ancestor ghosts are left to protect the tombs. As for Sovengarde, I presume that Shor picks who he feel's is worthy to be in the halls. So if you die a death he finds heroic, you get a ticket to Sovengarde. Granted, you still got to beat Tsun. Soul trapping is using the enrgy of the soul to enchant something, not the soul itself

But what about the man who trapped his own soul in Azura's star?

I always found it humorous to soul trap someone I don't like into a ring that's enchanted with stamina regen with the lowest magnitude and then throwing that ring down a well.

Well, that brings some light into this. This makes me wonder though why anyone would pledge alliance to a daedric prince. I wouldn't want to spend my end of days in the Deadlands or even worse, in the company of Molag Bal or Vaermina.


So this is like the thing Voldemort did in the Harry Potter franchise, eh? (and I thought Rowling made that up) If that is really the case, this leads to the assumption that you have to be alive to do so. Jagar Tharn did it. Zurin Arctus did it. I wonder if ALMSIVII did it to Lorkhans heart - maybe thats what is needed for CHIM. Altough I think one of them, was it Almalexia or Sotha Sil? - was still alive after you 'destroyed' the heart (which leads to the question if you destroyed it at all). But that is a bit far away from the topic.


Could you rephrase/clarify that? There are two interpretations possible. The first time I read it it sounded like a Necromancer does it as long as he can't turn into a Lich. When he is able, he does something else. Or did you mean in order to become a Lich he has to do that? Also... if the Liches are still the Necromancers, just undead, why are they more animal-like? I don't hear them talk, I don't see them doing research or something. All they do all day long is waiting for an intruder to kill (inb4 GAME MECHANICS).


So if I kill a Zombie with Umbra or something similar, I don't get the soul but only it's energy? What happens to the soul then? According to thermodynamics, matter cannot move without energy. So it would be trapped where ever it was released until the end of time (only if you assume that the laws of thermodynamics apply in TES).


This reminds me or the Lord of the Rings franchise. Seems like neither JK Rowling nor Bethesda made the soul-to-thing-binding-for-immortality-thingy up.

Which would possibly make him the least capable warrior in the bunch.

Unless you're going by the Daggerfall school, where they're back with a vengeance if you're not careful.

At least in that scenario you retain your identity. The really scary stuff can be preferable to the terrifyingly unknown.

You didn't destroy the Heart, you just disenchanted it and it disappeared. Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil were all still alive at the time the Heart was disenchanted. All it did was severe their tie to the Heart and make them mortal. Thus, the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur could be killed. That was the whole point of doing it.

There seems to be some requirements regarding Sovngarde;

A couple servants will tell you specificly; dust cleaners do not go to Sovngarde because there's no honor in it.
So, commoners do not actually goto Sovngarde; and you actually have to be a soldier or warrior or some sort. And or/ kill lots of people.

You, the dragonborn can get yourself into Sovngarde by naming yourself the listener of the dark brotherhood.
Then what can be conclude from that; is belief is not important for getting into Sovngarde; being a mass murderer gets you into Sovngarde regardless of morals or there's just a lot of honor in killing people.

So what exactly makes for a true nord, I don't get

I thought undead was just the summoning of a random soul into a dead body and binding it; that would gave credence to way they act like slobbering animals.

I wonder were the Undead comes from, if I summon a Zombie. If I raise a body, it's without a soul. If I summon a soul from Aetherius/Sovngarde/Oblivion/etc. it comes without a body.

Let me clear up some of the things I said. When you soul trap someone, you are trapping the soul. However, the soul is sapped of power during enchanting, then relased to wherever. All depends on the person/Daedra/etc. As for the man who trapped himself in Azura's star, he soul trapped himself, but he was not drained of power in enchanting, then released. Still, it must be VERY painful. As for Maiq's comment, it could just be the cat being himself, or it could refer to the spell itself being cast on him. Perhaps you can feel the tug of the trap trying to remove your soul, but having to wait for you to be defeated. A drain eating away at you very soul......and then being trapped in the gem, which must be even more painful. Then having your power drained before being released......Oh god that's awful.
As for Lichdom, Celedaen (You might know him as the half-lich you are ordered to kill in the Dark Brotherhood quest from Oblivion, "Affiars of a Wizard", the author of "The Path of Transcendence", or the guy who is easy to sneak by in the DB questline) wrote wanna-be Lich's need to have they're soul bound in a object during the process of turning into a Lich. A Khajit folk tale tells of a Lich who kept his soul in the head of a wood elf infant. However, once they are full on Lich, the vessel holding the soul is no longer needed. That's why you can pickpocket the hourglass from him, and he dies. It has his soul in it, and if removed from his person, his only anchor to life is served, and he dies.
So yeah, is it like what Micheal Jackson Voldmort did. It's also similar to Achilles, and in a way, Percy. Binding all your life, your soul, to a object, point on your body, or in the case of Micheal Jackson Voldmort, serveal objects.
As for Liches, I play game mechanics. You never see any of them doing research, just standing guard or sleeping. By lore, they still should be able to talk and do research. Heck, in tribunal, you meet a lich that WILL talk to you.
And for summoning Zombies? I have no idea. I always went with the guess that you are raising them out of the area. Could be summoning them from Aethirus or something.
Whatever, just blame gameplay mechanics

And as for dropping them into a well as a ring, I think it would be better to just drop the soul gem into the well. Granted, you would trouble remembring who is in the gem, unless it's morrowind, or you have some mod. Take THAT Nazeem!
Poor guy

I see, I see. Haven't played Tribunal yet, maybe I'll have before TES VI is released.

Anyway so I guess Liches and common Undead do not have a lot in common. So Oblivion is kinda done. But now I have to remind you guys about Skyrim. The Draugr are ancient Nords and master of the Thu'um that are servants of the Dragon priests. And as far as I know they are only 'awake' since the dragons have returned. So they are not like ghosts that are always around and they are not Liches since they do not posses their own souls. They are not Zombies either, since they weren't active for a long time (a Zombie is shuffling).

So I assume that the Draugr are 'soul slaves' like Arctus was a Slave to Tiber Septim. The question is, are the Dragon priests the same thing to the Dragons?

I don't think it is discussed very much in game, but based on what is said in Amongst the Draugr I think that the Draugr willingly became as they are in order to serve the Dragon Priests, who were cursed to remain alive.

Thanks for saying everything I wanted to say.

Not sure what to make of them yet. I can't really get an idea of when the Nordic pantheon went from Totem Animals to Divines as described in Faith in the Empire, and then to the Nine divines. The priests of the nine seem to be interring their dead in mausoleums rather then burial mounts. But I don't know how long that practice has been going on.

Even so I can't quite imagine that only dragon priests and their followers were buried in the Nordic burial mounts. They're a rather convenient way to dispose of the death. Fortunatly there is another explanation too:

Once, they were warriors much like the Skaal. Trapped and hungry on this island, they feasted on the flesh of their fallen comrades, which is a crime against nature. The All-Maker cursed them with undeath, forever doomed to walk the land in search of more of the flesh of man to consume. - Korst Wind-Eye, Bloodmoon

The Nordic pantheon has Shor on top right ? And Aka was the ancestor of elves so he was evil until the empire came along?

The Draugr in Solstheim was suppose to be different altogether than the ones in skyrim ?

Jurgen and Ysgramor are buried in ancient tombs, and they died well after and before the Dragon War. No one knows why draugr are all over the place.

Edit: Also, Draugr show up in the Whiterun Hall of the Dead. So I doubt them siding with the dragons has anything to do with it.

Placeholders for non-existent zombies then.

Actually, Draugrs are proprietary necroware of NORDsoft.

You know what the problem with Skyrim is these days? everyone is obsessed with death.

My thoughts exactly. At least three different afterlife opportunities were presented in a game. As cool as that is, it is too talked about.

Was about to say something, but you're right. There's Shor's, then Hircine's, and the crummy Noctunral afterlife (seriously, guarding a permalocked place must really svck)

Who in the hell would deliberatly swear an oath knowing that they would have to be security for eternity. It's beyond me.