except you could then take it off, and they would kill you. you could put legion armor on in full view of NCR, and no one in their right mind would IMMEDITIALY start shooting this person without at least asking about it or simply mentioning they should take it off or they will start shooting. No, instead the reaction is IMMEDIATE and VIOLENT. SKYRIM did it better, SKYRIM!

so, no, it failed miserable and did not actually work

Basicaly if they tried to make it work more logically then fine. But given that we are getting a modular armor system......well we will see

We've been talking about the outfit, not the man's face. You said you wore the outfit (and I'm assuming your PC didn't look like Caesar) and were shot at. I still say that makes sense (for the reasons I've already listed) since if I'm given orders to shoot anyone dressed in Legion gear I'm going to do it, not stop because it looks like Caesar's gear. Again, that would just make me want to shoot you even more.

That aside it can be annoying, especially if the Caesar gear has good stats and you want to wear it.

I say yes, it was a really interesting idea and makes a lot of sense, but maybe do something like you can change the armor to another faction's style.

How about you calm down and listen. No one said it was perfect. There could be many improvements made to the system. We've all said that. Skyrim did it better? Hardly, you could go charging at the Markath gates with full forsworn gear and weapon drawn and the guards won't give a damn. All because they won't dare frustrate the player base by locking out quests.

I'd rather have NV's system than not have it at all.

It's a logical step forward for the series, IMO. I would be surprised if it didn't work that way.

For the love of...

1) In both of my posts, I made it abundantly clear, in no uncertain terms whatsoever, that I fully acknowledge that there are flaws, and that it is far from perfect. I also said that improvements would be welcome.
2) Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it doesn't work or that it failed miserably. By that logic, early automobiles didn't work and were a total failure because they weren't fast enough, didn't have air conditioning, and lacked a radio.
3) How in all Hell did Skyrim do it better? I can recall one instance during one quest in that entire game that allowed the use of disguises. It lasted for only a short portion of it and only worked if you played as a specific one of the ten races.

I generally liked the system in New Vegas. Was it perfect? Absolutely not, but it was an interesting option to have.

if you wear imperial or stormcloak armor and go to the opposite faction, they will ask you about it, you can either point out to them you are simply wearing it or you can scream death that the guy. As in, you COULD be attacked for wearing it, but the people were not trigger (sword swinging?) happy idiots

the way it is implemented in new vegas is not good at all, because it adds only something very small, that makes little sense to begin with. the ONE thing it was meant to do, BARELY works, so yes, the game would have been tons better if it simply did not have it and you could where what you want without issues.

also, In fallout 2, a game where factions are a main part of the game (enclave, NCR, etc) best armor was enclave armor, you were NEVER attacked on sight for wearing it.

But it served no function at all besides being another type of armor with a dialogue line. You could wear the wrong kind around your friends and explain yourself, yeah. But you couldn't wear the right kind around your enemies, which, unless it's to show off, is the only reason someone would realistically wear the outfit of their foes. I could done Forsworn armor with my sword sheathed and get swatted down by Forsworn archers twenty yards away. In New Vegas, I can wear NCR armor and actually convince them that I am a friend. The difference is that the latter serves an actual gameplay function. It simply has some flaws that could use refining.

I fail to see how dining enemy armor and using it to slip behind enemy lines makes little sense. This was what it was intended for. This works. If you play a Legion character and want to do most of the game's quests, it's a damned blessing, because there are NCR grunts everywhere. You seem to have the incorrect definition of what it means for something to 'work'. It works fine. They way it works happens to be imperfect, and lacking in some features that would improve it. I don't see why anyone would want to remove it entirely, or how that would improve the game. Is it because you want to go strolling through the Strip or Camp Hope dressed as a Legion or Brotherhood soldier? Or the Fort as an NCR ranger? The natural response to that by 99% of the people would be to shoot first and ask questions later.

The only real big issues come from the dressing/undressing in view of people, which would be a very difficult mechanic to work with.

not hard at all, Daggerfall had it, so did skyrim, with the Werewolf transformation. Line of sight. do they SEE you transforming back to human? if so, attack, if not, you are fine. in this case, if they SEE you changing cloths, then nothing happens, or maybe they ask why you are wearing it.

and like i said, wearing Caesars arrmor should make the LEGION attack you, and the NCR wonder why the Fudge yo uare wearing it.

by your logic, no one in the NCR would have attacked someone wearing it at all, because the logic "they do not know what he looks like" works both ways, if they have seen him, they would know it is something only he wears, if not, they would not reconize it as legion at all.

Great Khan and Kings and similar armor is mostly just regular cloths with a sign, or something else, yet everyone reacts to that as well with whatever their thing is to that faction, even when it is entirely possible to have killed them, liked the looks of it (not realizing the reactions of people, because hey, its a coat/shorts/whatever.

raiders armor have zero effect, yet your logic would dictate they would be shot on sight as well.

These are some good ideas.

I especially like the mask idea. From a distance and as long as you do not talk to anyone a full mask outfit should fool people. With the right skills or perks you should be able to expand on how far you can push your disguise. Like in Star Wars Han Solo was able to BS his way into the prison complex dressed as a stormtrooper but lacked the ability to BS his way on the radio to cancel the alarm.

If something along these lines are not included in the game hopefully the basic structure of faction gear is included so that modders can fix it.

In Skyrim the faction armor at best got you a comment. With mods like CWO (Civil War Overhaul) joining a faction could make an entire region turn hostile. Wearing my legion armor I had to put down every Riften guard. Except for the unkillable bastards everywhere this felt more immersive. You were dressed as an enemy so you were treated as such.

I wouldn't mind this. It's why I said that it would be a nice change. But Skyrim's solution was very simple and applied to every NPC in the game: Kill werewolf. That was it. What you suggest (which is the opposite "don't attack") requires that the NPCs remember that hey saw you change clothes. And that they must do so from then on. The werewolf bit was very simple in that it simply had everyone turn hostile towards you if they see you as a werewolf, and there was no memory in Skyrim at all. They'd forget in three days.

Caesar's armor is unique, and hardly representative of the disguise system overall. As I've said half a dozen times, it isn't perfect. That's not the argument. The argument is that it worked, and then I gave my opinion that it was a welcome addition, because the good that came from it exists, and the flaws were minor and didn't hurt anyone. Even so, I'll bite. You are right that nobody in the NCR would even know what Caesar's armor looks like. But it's clearly Legion. If you approach them, they would only see a guy in what is clearly a fancy Legion uniform. The same goes for the Legion. How many of them have actually seen Caesar? How often do you reckon this sickly dictator 'god-king' strolls through his camps? They see a guy wearing obviously-Legion clothes, and they welcome him. The only people who don't are the higher ranking named members who actually would most likely recognize it or see through the disguise.

The Kings outfit doesn't work as a disguise, which makes sense since they are a small group of guys who live together. They'd see right through it. The Boomers also have an outfit that doesn't work as a disguise, but to be honest, I think that it would make more sense if it did.
The Great Khan armor has a big ass Khan sign on it's back, and is clearly a uniform. If I stroll through the grocery store wearing an expensive biker jacket that says "The White Jackals" or something on the back, one's first thought would probably be that I'm a biker from a gang called The White Jackals. Unlike the imaginary White Jackals, the Great Khans are well known in the Mojave, and have been numerous enough for their standard attire to be distinguishable.

Unlike everyone else we've discussed, raiders don't have a specific flag or uniform. They wear a bunch of dirty, stitched-together clothes and use recycled scrap for protection, much like many other wastelanders. That we only have four or five outfits to represent this is a fault in the clothing selection, but it isn't indicative of their attire being some kind of designated uniform like what is worn by the NCR, Khans, or Legion.

Bah - why would I want to wear any faction's armor, if I can wear the same armor without any damned stigma (other factions attacking me, people not wanting to speak with me or being biased against me if they do etc.) attached? (or better armor...I mean the best Power Armor in New Vegas was not the one the BOS gave you - same for the combat armor the NCR gave you -.-) - So, no!

greetings LAX

Completely and utterly false.

Being seen turning into a werewolf is an automatic 1000 gold bounty, which doesn't go away by itself, and causes almost all guards to attack on sight the moment they see you, werewolf or not, until you find a way to remove said bounty.

Whats more, is that an NPC wouldn't attack you, and a bounty wouldn't be applied, if an NPC was one of the following

-Other werewolves, M'aiq the Liar, members of the Dark Brotherhood, The Circle, followers currently in your service, members of the Thieves Guild, and the heroes of Sovngarde, but not your spouse, unless your spouse is one of these. Your wolf cousins will not attack you, and may even come to your aid if you use your Howl of Terror ability.

You should probably play the game instead of using memes.

In new vegas it made sense, but was poorly implemented for all the reasons that have been stated. The different factions had unique outfits that differentiates the wearers from one another. The only thing that bothered me was that the powder gangers were the only ones with Kevlar vests, which I'm a fan of aesthetically, and I had to wear it to get a vest and everyone shoots you.

That's what makes me excited for the layered armor system. I can wear my vault suit or whatever and still rock a vest and no one wants to murder me.

But like all these other arguments, I'll wait until it actually launches before I decide.

Oh [censored]! You're right! I forgot that I've never played Skyrim before and that you were aware of the fact. Thanks you, AwesomePossum, for reminding me of my inexperience. /s

You're right about the bounty, which is a step that I forgot to mention. You pay said bounty or go to jail for a week or two, and all is forgiven. And THEN everyone forgets that you are a dangerous werewolf. My bad.
And yes, there were a few exceptions who did not attack you. I didn't think it worth mentioning because they were so few in number, and are set to be your buddies no matter what. For accuracy'a sake, I should rephrase it to say that 99% of Skyrim is set to attack a werewolf on site. I fail to see how this reduces the simplicity of the system by a noteworthy amount. Hell, it would make more sense if some of the folks you named did attack you.

I would like to see a Fame score separate from Faction Reputation, with your Fame score determining if you are recognised in a disguise up-close, if you are wearing an enemy faction’s Identifying uniform or insignia from a distance you are likely to get shoot on first sight (or they may try and capture you) until they realise who you are.

Your Fame would increase every time you went to a new place (or better meet the notables of that location), did a quest for someone and do something notable). Having a faction putting out wanted posters for you would dramatically increase your fame. Your fame should also decrease say a point a day so if you have not done anything to attract fame the average person would eventually forget about you.

Stats and face covering should also affect how well a disguise works and a disguise should not work on an NPC that knows you.

It would also be good if you a wearing a unique piece of clothing or carrying a unique weapon that some NPC will ask you about it. Eg “That’s Bob’s hat, where did you get it? Have you see Bob?”