Those "studies" are highly subjective and can't possible give an all encompassing picture of the situation and it's foolish to believe that they somehow can. Unless you can somehow track down EVERY single person who pirates games and prove they bought most of the ones they pirates...then none of that really matters. Let me know when that study comes out and maybe you'll have the start(and only a start) to a decent point.

Yeah, that's what studies do, they take a percentage of the population to interpret the whole situation because interviewing everyone is not possible. And the fact that RIAA made the study you think that makes them subjective in favor of piracy? And the point is not that they buy everything they pirate, the point is pirates buy huge amounts of games because of the marketing effects of p2p. And considering that you bring nothing new to the subject but your own biased opinion I would say that my point is quite a lot more decent than yours. Try again.

Yeah, that's what studies do, they take a percentage of the population to interpret the whole situation because interviewing everyone is not possible. And the fact that RIAA made the study you think that makes them subjective in favor of piracy? And the point is not that they buy everything they pirate, the point is pirates buy huge amounts of games because of the marketing effects of p2p. And considering that you bring nothing new to the subject but your own biased opinion I would say that my point is quite a lot more decent than yours. Try again.

The RIAA are a bunch of clowns and everyone knows that. You're suggesting that an organization that consistently goes on witch hunts and demonizes everyone from 14 year olds to housewives is somehow a legitimate source of information for absolutely anything? I'm interested to see what portion of the population was willing to answer such a "study". Sounds more like a survey. Pirates saying they buy products can easily be equated to teenagers telling all of those "studies" they don't have six and drink. They have nothing to gain by not lying.

Perhaps if you gave me another counter argument besides "people are liars" would give you a little more credibility. And I never said the RIAA was an awesome organization I said they made the study because you said it was subjective while it's clearly not in their own interest to promote piracy.

HOW noob must a company be to save all the game files into an ONLINE server. Thats your fault crytek, game files etc should be saved into computers with no internet access.

Maybe some developers leaked it who knows...

It might be because they would have to contact each other since there are two different Crytek teams working on the game in two different countries.

They might have had no other choice.

I honestly feel no sympathy or anger at all. It serves you right for treating the community like **** the whole time.

How are they treating the community like ****?

Perhaps if you gave me another counter argument besides "people are liars" would give you a little more credibility. And I never said the RIAA was an awesome organization I said they made the study because you said it was subjective while it's clearly not in their own interest to promote piracy.

Not much more needs to be said. It's actually really funny that pirates who supposedly detest the RIAA cite them as often as they do.

Reasons that study doesn't make any sense to cite in this situation....

-Five years old and the data that was collected is six years old. The situation has completely changed since then.
-Again, the people being studied have nothing to gain by not lying.
-Study is concerned with the record industry in Canada and how to market music as a whole, not video games.
-RIAA

There's no real way to calculate the damage piracy does to the gaming industry and likely never will be. The piracy to purchase ratio on games can sometimes be as high as 4-1 according to some figures and you can't tell me that's somehow a good thing and that some of those people wouldn't otherwise have purchased the game if not for having the option of getting it for free.

piracy doesn't hurt PC gaming tbh Steam got over 1 billion dollars for last years sales.

Piracy continues to damage the PC development community.
Ahh, so easy to blame another.
Why just a single platform ? Oh why?


When Wolverine Origins got leaked onto torrents, they didn't start going to the press and complain about moviegoers, because why on earth would you blame your customers?

Don't get mad at us because one of your employee's clearly has some issues, it's your lousy security that let this happen.

I'm not saying it's right, but this should be a story about how the game leaked due to your bad internal security and not because, "OMG PIRACY"

piracy doesn't hurt PC gaming tbh Steam got over 1 billion dollars for last years sales.
Consoles pull in well more than that. Xbox Live made well over that last year. That's not even counting software sales either. Part of that absolutely has to do with piracy.

I'm still buying the game so Crytek will still see my money.

I'd like to see something official like "please wait till the real PC demo comes out" and not just "wait till the finished polish version comes out at release".

Not much more needs to be said. It's actually really funny that pirates who supposedly detest the RIAA cite them as often as they do.

Reasons that study doesn't make any sense to cite in this situation....

-Five years old and the data that was collected is six years old. The situation has completely changed since then.
-Again, the people being studied have nothing to gain by not lying.
-Study is concerned with the record industry in Canada and how to market music as a whole, not video games.
-RIAA

There's no real way to calculate the damage piracy does to the gaming industry and likely never will be. The piracy to purchase ratio on games can sometimes be as high as 4-1 according to some figures and you can't tell me that's somehow a good thing and that some of those people wouldn't otherwise have purchased the game if not for having the option of getting it for free.

Since you seem intent in discrediting that particular study I will give you another one http://www.p2p-weblog.com/50226711/study_finds_pirates_buy_more_music.php which is recent, not RIAA, not in canada, and I can't give you one about video games because as far as I know none were made but like I said it is anologous and even more true for video games because you can't play pirated games online (except on Xbox where you can). And yes I can tell you that this is a good thing because of #1 those studies I mentioned and #2 all the positive feedback I've seen from the p2p community mentioning that they loved it and will buy it. So that leaves us to your original argument that people are lying which is a pretty weak argument at best.

Perhaps if you gave me another counter argument besides "people are liars" would give you a little more credibility. And I never said the RIAA was an awesome organization I said they made the study because you said it was subjective while it's clearly not in their own interest to promote piracy.

There's no real way to calculate the damage piracy does to the gaming industry and likely never will be. The piracy to purchase ratio on games can sometimes be as high as 4-1 according to some figures and you can't tell me that's somehow a good thing and that some of those people wouldn't otherwise have purchased the game if not for having the option of getting it for free.

So, you say we can't calculate the effect of piracy, and in the next sentence you give us some numbers on piracy (without citation, mind you) and then draw your conclusions.

Which one is it? can it be calculated or not?

Just like we'd need to take into account that some of those pirated copies are lost sales, we'd need to take into account that some of these pirated copies lead to sales.

Neil Gaiman's latest book was free for download, but his sales still went up 300%.
Clearly availability didn't effect his sales negatively.
I think it's safe to assume that in some cases people purchased the book AFTER or partway through reading it, because they felt they should support the author after being satisfied with the product. I point this out to not illustrate a point about how piracy is beneficial, but I bring it up to show that just because someone can get something for free doesn't mean they don't consider it worthless, and will act accordingly.

Consoles pull in well more than that. Xbox Live made well over that last year. That's not even counting software sales either. Part of that absolutely has to do with piracy.

It has nothing to do with piracy because piracy exists on consoles just as well as on PC. Consoles sell more because for every PC gamer there's probably 10 on consoles because most casual gamers don't play on PC and those that do are not casual and are very critical about having quality games which have declined on the PC.

If they had released the demo when they should have, the effect of this would be much less. It's quite ironic, really.

HOW noob must a company be to save all the game files into an ONLINE server. Thats your fault crytek, game files etc should be saved into computers with no internet access.

Maybe some developers leaked it who knows...

It might be because they would have to contact each other since there are two different Crytek teams working on the game in two different countries.

They might have had no other choice.

Ever hear of encryption?

piracy doesn't hurt PC gaming tbh Steam got over 1 billion dollars for last years sales.
Consoles pull in well more than that. Xbox Live made well over that last year. That's not even counting software sales either. Part of that absolutely has to do with piracy.

Total software sales for games was around $15 billion last year. Steam made $1bn of that on it's own, WoW pulled in another $1bn (but is not included in stat apart from the actual purchases [subs don't count]) and it's safe to say every other PC game together pulled in a billion at least (i'd assume as a low estimate, but i'd guess around $2bn based on below).

Total retail was around $10bn, meaning that $5bn was DLC and digital. Now, i don't know about you, but only one platform really sells digital copies of games at any decent rate, and there's no way some DLC packs made a $1bn on their own.

Also, Subs for games aren't included.

Essentially, without subs, each platform pulls in about the same, and with subs the PC pulls in about 50% more than any other platform.

piracy doesn't hurt PC gaming tbh Steam got over 1 billion dollars for last years sales.
Consoles pull in well more than that. Xbox Live made well over that last year. That's not even counting software sales either. Part of that absolutely has to do with piracy.

Some points:

1) I believe the point was to illustrate profitably in the industry, since apparently some like to pretend it's in shambles due to piracy.
2) Steam is a single service, and while a slice of the pie, it is not the whole pie.
3) Just like with PC, Xbox and PS3 sales are effected by piracy.
4) The console community is larger than the PC gaming community, so there will be larger revenues, but they are still both profitable.

If they had released the demo when they should have, the effect of this would be much less. It's quite ironic, really.

unless this is the demo which we don't know because they're not telling us anything more just that they want us to wait to play the finished polished version at release

if this is it and they're just being clever then I don't want to miss out

if it isn't and they really truly don't want us playing it then tell us so we don't feel guilty

The whole 'consoles bring in more revenue' is just an illusion due to the inability to harass digital distributers about their sales. The NPD stats claim to include digital, but how did they get information from steam?

"Piracy continues to damage the PC development community."

Cheap ports from console to PC continues to hurt the PC gaming community.
I'm sick of playing games that are scaled for 6 year old hardware. Only game since Crysis 1 in 2007 to put a strain on my rig has been Metro 2033 (amazing game there).

If I see that the PC version is fleshed out to the point where it doesn't bring shame upon the name of Crysis 1, then I will buy it. So far I'm sceptical.
And I don't just mean graphics, I'm taling about modding etc aswell.

So the only footage we get is from an early January pc build that is not the
Final release and you are saying we can help by preordering. Why not tell us whether
or not there will be dx11, modified servers, editor.Show some footage at max settings. No, you will be tight lipped but want me to give you my money on faith. I am huge crysis fan, but I will wait until reviews hit thanks. Next time maybe politely ask your customers to buy upon release rather than preorder when you have not shown them any reason to(outside of what you say is not a final product)




NVIDIA confirmed that there would be directx11, Crytek revealed that there will be dedicated servers ( if that's what you mean by modified servers) and there will more than likely be an editor. And did you ever stop to think that since this is Crytek's first multiplatform release that they may have to get the appeal of the console crowd? It's pretty much a no-brainer that Crysis 2 would be excepted by PC gamers that were fans of the previous games. In the mean time learn to scrounge around for information rather than assume it hasn't been revealed.




@nano wonder
1.I find it strange nvidia has posted that crysis 2 would support dx11 yet ea and crytek have not. please post link to back up your statement.
2.Dedicated servers is not what I meant.In the mean time learn to scrounge around for information rather than assume.
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=66903&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=2
3.Editor, well now that you have confirmed it is likely it I quess we can all rest easy
4. Yes, I do think they are appealling to the console crowd and I think it is good they will be able to get their product out to a wider audience but what does that have to do with my original post? My complaint was that cry-adam's post (page 5) was asking us to show support by pre ordering a pc game but has given us limited official info on that platform. I could have accepted it if he said purchase on release date but preordering blindly when so many questions are unanswered pissed me off.

Again, please show me link for nvidia confirming crysis 2 uses dx11 (not run crysis 2 on our new gtx 580 which is capable of dx11) as I'm sure others are interested in the info as well.

Since you seem intent in discrediting that particular study I will give you another one http://www.p2p-weblog.com/50226711/study_finds_pirates_buy_more_music.php which is recent, not RIAA, not in canada, and I can't give you one about video games because as far as I know none were made but like I said it is anologous and even more true for video games because you can't play pirated games online (except on Xbox where you can). And yes I can tell you that this is a good thing because of #1 those studies I mentioned and #2 all the positive feedback I've seen from the p2p community mentioning that they loved it and will buy it. So that leaves us to your original argument that people are lying which is a pretty weak argument at best.
So 2000 kids from Norway willing to talk about music piracy is representative of video game pirates? No study is going to effectively find a way to cover this issue. Interesting thing from that study; 73 percent of of respondents to the CRIA's survey said that they bought music after they downloaded it illegally, while the primary reason from the non-P2P camp for not buying music was attributed to plain old apathy.

Bullllcrap. That alone shows how polling people just won't work here. 73% of people who pirate files don't go out and buy duplicates. Again, people being polled have nothing to gain for honesty. Plus...there's the fact that music isn't video games sort of makes this worthless.




So, you say we can't calculate the effect of piracy, and in the next sentence you give us some numbers on piracy (without citation, mind you) and then draw your conclusions.

Which one is it? can it be calculated or not?


There's no way to calculate it. The figure I was throwing out(I honestly forget from where, think it was from a dev talking to Joystiq a few months ago or something) is an interesting discussion point about prevalence, but not about financial impact.



It has nothing to do with piracy because piracy exists on consoles just as well as on PC. Consoles sell more because for every PC gamer there's probably 10 on consoles because most casual gamers don't play on PC and those that do are not casual and are very critical about having quality games which have declined on the PC.

Piracy on consoles by no means takes place on the same scale. It requires three times the effort to achieve.

The second part is interesting because you're absolutely right. More people play on consoles and more people pay on consoles regardless of whatever "consumer power" argument a bunch of people spitting on others creative works have to say about it. If I'm a dev, I'm going to go where the money is and that's what's happening. I'm really not interested in worthless console war arguments, but leaking the game isn't exactly encouraging the creators to go ahead and continue to support the platform.


If they had released the demo when they should have, the effect of this would be much less. It's quite ironic, really.

I'm glad authorities like you get to decide when it's appropriate for someone else's work to be released.

Bullllcrap. That alone shows how polling people just won't work here. 73% of people who pirate files don't go out and buy duplicates. Again, people being polled have nothing to gain for honesty. Plus...there's the fact that music isn't video games sort of makes this worthless.

Again you call people liars and give your opinion without supporting it with anything. Your point of view is basically worthless at this point.

Piracy on consoles by no means takes place on the same scale. It requires three times the effort to achieve.

Exactly how did you come to the conclusion that piracy on consoles is not on the same scale?

The second part is interesting because you're absolutely right. More people play on consoles and more people pay on consoles regardless of whatever "consumer power" argument a bunch of people spitting on others creative works have to say about it. If I'm a dev, I'm going to go where the money is and that's what's happening. I'm really not interested in worthless console war arguments, but leaking the game isn't exactly encouraging the creators to go ahead and continue to support the platform.


I have nothing against companies going where the consumer base is. I do have a problem with devs making **** console ports and blaming piracy afterwards for poor sales. And not to mention that the game was not leaked by the "PC community" it was their own fault for having security issues within their own compounds.

Here is link for DX11: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-560ti-us.html