This. This this this, 1000 times this, and nothing else. The lack of space argument is BS. The "don't like it don't use it" argument, while it works, is also utter BS. Depending on the new engine's capabilities (from what we have seen it will be even more flexible than Oblivion's engine) this would take less than 2-3 MB of space. Make a menu option to turn off fast travel, throw in a few NPCs at major cities, give them 3 additional lines of dialog in addition to general greeting and rumors (Offer a ride, ride accepted, ride denied), and make a quick dialog menu with some scripting attached to the options. It is not that hard.

Have you actually played Morrowind?
You don't always need to walk as much as you say. Mark/recall and intervention spells can be very useful when traveling back to something or when traveling to a town. When traveling to something, use the transportation services.
I think you could still get to that quest-location before dinner
I had no trouble traveling pretty fast across the map using Morrowind's system. It's just more believable and immersive

In addition, nothing stops Bethesda from developing Morrowind's system even further. Making it even better.
I'd say if you want everything to go as fast as possible, then you should skip doing all quests and just use console commands as well, and use your imagination to fill in the gaps!!! It doesn't matter how immersion-breaking it is, as long as you get to your destination or final goal fast, right? (Your idea, not mine ) / Sarcasm.

My posts, and my entire point was regarding ONLY fast travel, differant things are handled differantly, and its your idea of skipping everything in the game, not mine, I only want to get to locations faster, dont try to apply same logic to everything. And still, its less time wasted doing something you dont want to do, and more actually DOING SOMETHING, like talking, doing quests, shopping, fighting and so on, instead of walking. And it might be only few minutes of differance, but I say I preffer to have those few minutes spendt on something meaningfull.

I can name you one. I always mounted my horse before fast traveling. So I could easily imagine I travelled on a horse. Cost was not an issue because even if I didn't fast travel, I still wouldn't have had to pay anything. And when, at times, I didn't search or mount my horse and just clicked away, I didn't complain about it since it was obviously my desire to do so.

If they have horses, I really don't want my characters to have to use caravans. What can I say? I like the whole lone rider thing. I do want a Morrowind system included for the added immersion even if I don't use it (and it seems damn easy for them to implement to me), but I don't see how adding the other system, to satisfy different playstyles, will hurt the game. Sorry if you didn't ask for removal of one system but only addition. But people have asked for removal in the thread, so this post was needed anyway.

Oblivions system without all the cities being unlocked is the best option so I would say no to earning Fast Travel by completeing a quest

That was an insult to people like me, who love the premise of what TES offers, but TES can't offer everything.

How much did Oblivion cater to thieves? Not a terrible lot, mate. We got a shoddy guild (with a few quests being quite enjoyable) but then we're stuck being head of it and having nothing more to do. We got the sneak skill and lockpick skill, and that's ALL thieves have. I mod my game to make me happy - and this is the glory of what TES is. It's you're own personal sandbox to build your own way, and you don't have to share it with NOBODY. I'm pretty sure you're either a console-user or a PC-user who's never taken the time to see what good mods can actually do. You remind me of my brother, who called all mods "cheats" regardless of the content.

My Frankenstein monster is far more balanced than Vanilla Oblivion, and bandits never wear daedric (in fact, I've never even seen daedric in my latest game, and I'm level 22), I use fast travel disablers and have a mod that adds caravans to ride with. When things get rough I go hop in my boat and sail to Elsweyr to hide out for a few days in Corinthe, and do Merchant quests while I'm there, transporting goods back and forth across the province. If this is a monstrosity, I'm proud to be the beastmaster.

My point was also regarding fast travel. A more immersive one

The other examples I mentioned were comparisons of your points, and the characteristics of Oblivion's click-and-you're-there fast travel. Basically just to support my point :]
The same logic can indeed be applied to other examples to prove a point; for instance:

how "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument doesn't work in this case,
how imagination isn't really a solution to an unimmersive and unexplanatory OB-fast-travel,
how things that add more possibilites aren't always the right ones, due to how much they can withdraw from immersion,
how Morrowind's fast travel system doesn't necessary means a lot more time spent; and that it's main point is to add immersion and a more "logical" explanation to fast traveling.

I've never said of a removal of OB's fast travel. Personally I think they should just make it togglable and add a Morrowind fast travel system as a base. By a utilitarianistic point of view, that would please the most amount of people; and it wouldn't require too much work from Bethesda's part. You would still be able to OB-fast-travel all you want, and I would still be able to use Morrowind's fast travel system all I want, without any real interruption from each other. Everyone is happy

The 'just imagine you're using travel services' argument can be extended to anything else in the game.

Why have shops? Just have a 'buy' option in your inventory and imagine that you're visiting a trader. And hey, if you don't like it, don't use it. There are lots of bandits to loot, so it's no big deal.

The point in playing a game at all is to have something to interact with. I can lie in my bed imagining all sorts of things. When I play a game, I want things in the game to engage with my imagination.

A world without travel services makes little sense - even in a warzone, there's always a taxi driver who will take you somewhere for a price. It can't take that much effort to implement travel services, and IMHO there's no excuse not to do it - skimming through these message boards, it must be very very obvious that it's something that matters to a lot of fans / customers / whatever.

Have fast travel as well, I don't care, just as long as there is an in-world equivalent.

I think that realy would be the perfect solution hlvr. I was more talking about what if they had to choose only one, and I preffered Oblivion way of handling it, but having the system work as your presented would indeed make everyone happy..... that is untill people would moan: ,,Why cant I see my character riding the giant jellyfish? I WANT TO SEE MY CHARACTER RIDING THAT THING, ALL THE WAY, REAL TIME!!''. But lets face it, there would always be people that want more.

I voted a combination of 5 and 1. It reminds me of having to find all the propylon indices in Morrowind and then getting the master index (via the official plugin) which, as far as MW goes, was the closest thing to free fast travel that you could get.

If there could be other normal modes of fast/faster transportation, like paying for a boat or a caravan or something, and then also have the option to do some epic quest to uncover the secrets of some free instant travel, I think that'd be cool.

This would surely be the best way to do it, but sadly the devs don't listen

Yes it's true. There will always be people that would want that. There will also be people that want guns in TES.
What Bethesda needs to focus on though is how many people that want it.
I've read numerous of fast travel threads. I've seen many polls. I've read a lot of comments.

Based on all this, I can almost confirm that most people here want a change of Oblivion's fast travel. I'm not meaning a complete removal of Oblivion's fast travel, but rather keep it a togglable setting; while also implementing a real alternative, such as Morrowind's fast travel system.

Bethesda would be foolish not to understand this.
I've seen a few devs visiting these fast travel threads. While they haven't posted anything, I hope that they have read, and passed along the information to Todd or someone who can decide to implement something like this.

I'm sure mods will be able to accomplish it. But it's sad to leave something that should have been in the game in the first place to the modders. Besides, consoles can't use mods...

hlvr, master of diplomacy ^^

Personally, I would very much like it how it was in Morrowind. But I understand some people really want the Oblivion-style fast travel, so I strongly think that there should be an option in the beginning of each playthough that allows you to permanently disable oblivion-style fast travel. And even if there is no Morrowind-like fast travel, I'd still prefer having no fast travel what-so-ever over having just Oblivion-style fast travel. I HATE the oblivion-style fast travel, it totally kills the sense of scale of the game world.

I can only imagine your first exposure to the series was Oblivion. I look forward to your protest threads when something that you loved, or something that just plain made sense, is lost in the transition from Oblivion to Skyrim. Cheers.

Why toggleable? None of the two systems should be an afterthought. And if both exist, the "don't use the one you don't want" argument becomes quite valid.

This is true, and I wouldn't mind that *shrug*

Good. Now that we have consensus.. ehh.. how do we go on to persuade bethesda ? :biggrin:

...twitter? ^^

I want to be able to fast travel to a few towns and cities but you still have to find the other ones (even though they're marked on your map)...

Togglable: it would feel strange to have two systems that to the same thing (but very differently) in the game at the same time. Making it togglable by a setting would be a piece of cake for Bethesda to do. It would make more sense in-game, and it would please more people. I don't see why not making it togglable.

The argument "If you don't like it, don't use it" assumes there is no option in the other discussion, making it a bad argument in that situation.
If both of these systems are implemented; and togglable, it's a good argument, since then there is actually an adequate alternative.

I think the point people are making is a lack of alternative in Oblivion. This is the case for fast-travel, quest taking and navigation. A system was introduced for all of these (instant travel, the multi-coloured flags and the compass) that was near enough impossible to get by without, because the developers failed to implement an alternate system. I personally would prefer a Morrowind based system, but I would settle for a Fallout style form. So long as there were alternatives. So yeah, having personal willpower against using fast travel is all well and good (seeing as many view it as breaking immersion), but there should be alternate methods of getting around placed in the game, in tandem. So, caravans of merchants, guild guides, boats, coachs. All that sort of thing.

Same with the other stuff I mentioned. You should be able to find and complete quests using just your journal and interactions with the NPCs in question. Oblivion is far too ambiguous and vague when it comes to briefings in most cases, meaning you are literally forced to use the flags to get anything done. That's what I meant by lack of alternative that is causing trouble.

EDIT: Pretty much what hlvr said. Good post there.

I have an idea that's similar...

...There's a Dragon Shout for traveling. You use it and a friendly or hypnotized dragon (from your shout) swoops in and carries you to your desired location. :disguise:

I think the solution would actually make fast travel kind of cheating, as the uhm.... In-game travel network would cost gold, assumably fast travel would not (at least if they keep the Oblivion system). So that would make the travel network the victim of "if you don't like it, don't use it" with the added aspect of a really easy way of "cheating" if one can even talk of such an element in a single player game... I think I got my point out... :spotted owl:

LOL, and this is why I wish there was a popcorn emote. These kind of threads every day are just soooo entertaining LOL

Right, I got tired of reading after page 3, so appologies to those afterwards

I could see this for a painting. However, do painters ever give you copies with the paint and brushes to change it? The game is inteded to be changed. Another POV that some might take is that they've been personally insulted because the game isn't exactly like they wanted, even after their input via forums. OH, another tac cold be that mods, even overhauls are a way for a person to get their money out of it. I shelved the game for a whole year (more? ) after one week's of playing. Then I got TIE mod, and it was good. I just downloaded OOO to see if I could play OB again. Hey, that brings about another view, that via mods being available can help sales to those who don't like the vanilla version (like me). BUT, this whole business is off-topic.

Or playing to silent majority who don't post here? Oh, and do you have any idea of what the final fast travel product will be like? If yes, then please explain.

Adding on to this is that many assume that things from the past will be like the future, that there are only black and white versions, and that their tiny fraction of monitary input means that they are owed develepontal input.

Oh lets see, to post something relating to the thread directly, I've already stated my theory of what fast travel will be (gasp, it could be something different from OB and MW? ) so how about this: I think bullet time will be in, correct? So adding to my dragon shout ability thing, as one travels, it will be in bullet time, so that it takes away the teleport aspect, allows you to be seen, and even shot down!!! "Look! Up in t the air! Its a bird, a plane, no...it's a FAST TRAVELER!!! GET HIM