indeed, buying the FO3 GOTY disc version made getting the DLC really easy.

It's pretty much confirmed it will use Steam. I just hope that means we'll be able to download through Steam too. Was Fallout NV like that?

Yes

Fallout NV was a mess, I mean people say LIVE was bad.

but guzz wtf happened in Fallout NV

Do you mean something went wrong with its Steam integration or that are you referring to the plethora of bugs the game had?

I had no problems, it was not steam, it was obsidian.

But Beth OK'ed it so it wasn't just obsidian

Hate to burst this bubble, but a poll on a message board is really not the most representative thing.

Steamworks means the game will be integrated into Steam with about 75% of the integration that Valve's own games have. It always meant that you will have to start Steam and be bothered by those twenty to thirty megabytes of random access memory it consumes.
Steam is hardly bloatware. It only offers one addition to the core function (game managing), and that is a link to the online community. Which disappears completely when you use it in offline mode, which when active - just to say it again - does not require checking in online ever again.

Well that svcks hairy..... *cough*

Seems to be more or less confirmed by the description of Steamworks on Valve's own site now. Things have gone from bad to awful in the last 6 months apparently. It's now every bit the aggressive and intrusive system everyone rips on GFWL for supposedly being.

And I'm sorry, but the joke known as offline mode doesn't stay that way. Too many people I know continue to complain about that despite repeatedly telling it to stop connecting.

I really don't know what those people did then. My laptop has not been connected to the web for months and the Steam-purchased older titles I play on there work without issues.

And Steamworks has not changed in the last months, it's the same as it was when it was first announced, and still better running than GfWL.

Apart from that it doesn't work.

The only one that has is Starcraft 2's multiplayer, and people could still easily pirate the Single Player on that.

Steam has actually been quite beneficial for me, given that I have multiple games bought or at least registered through Steam. Steam means I won't have to mess around with CDs when I want to play different games or install them, and given that I've got a permanent broadband connection to the internet Steam isn't really a burden either. To me, having a CD check is a much bigger hassle, making me waste far more time finding the correct DVD, and then putting away whichever DVD I had in my drive, as opposed to simply starting up the program. Also, In Oblivion's case I actually broke my DVD on the collector's edition packaging, it cracked right from the middle and a good third through the disc itself; which ensured I couldn't play the game until I acquired a new one. Steam would have simply let me re-download the game, updates and all handled for me while I could have gone do something else- like downloading mods. :hubbahubba:

I think it's actually quite convenient. The only issue I've ever had with it is that it refuses to acknowledge the correct microphone for communication in multiplayer games, insisting on using the one of on my web-cam, which makes me sound like a far distant bumblebee, instead of my actual my head-set microphone. It's got quick downloads, easy to host and join multiplayer games, sometimes awesome sales, and a plethora of other conveniences. Though I would indeed prefer not 'having' to use it at all, it's a step up from being tied to those bloody discs that scratch and break or simply disappear.

I would probably speak differently if I ever had any issues with it, but I've had issues with DVD drives, CDs, DVDs and stuff as well. Whatever option you pick will ultimately have issues, with or without DRM.

I think we can agree on one thing: Steam mandatory will piss off a lot of customers because it'll be seen as annoying, arbitrary and I'm going to be fair, some people consider it bloatware. Steam version, I have no problem with. Just don't FORCE me to install it.

If you wipe your computer, you install steam. You login to your account, and all your games are there. You can then either re-download them or install them from a disk if you have the retail disk. Hardly a huge effort needed.

Meh, prices drop pretty rapidly anyway. I picked up New Vegas for ￡15. I've not paid full price for a game in ages. By the time bugs are ironed out and the game becomes playable without grief, the price has already halved. And then there's the fact that Steam tends to have good deals in general.


Other than for people with poor internet connections, and those who wish to resell their games (not an issue for me, I have a habit of hoarding and going back to old games), I really don't get the Steam hate. And if your PC is going to suffer greatly from the 7kb of RAM that Steam uses up, it's not going to handle games anyway.

I think what we need is answers.

WILL IT USE STEAM?
YES or NO?

IF NO, will it use GFWL.

if no then will it need a DMR?

Well, it's that way with ALL DRMs. They FORCE you to install SOMETHING, whether it tells you or not.

At least Steamworks tells you it's installing something, and not installing something that could be considered malicious without telling you.

All in all, I think Steamworks is the best choice if we have to use a DRM (besides a simple disk check anyway). GFWL is severely flawed, SecuROM and others like it are basically malware (some of which are impossible to remove without wiping your drive), and the rest require CONSTANT internet connection.



Well, I'm happy about one thing if it really is using Steamworks. At least I won't have to stand in line with hundreds of loud, obnoxious, and sweaty people waiting to get a copy. I'll just save myself the trouble and pre download it off of Steam and wait until midnight (Valve-time) to unlock it.

Todd said in an interview in one of the international magazines they will be on steam.

I can't imagine it'll be Steam exclusive. There may well be a direct2drive version of the game too. Steam is not the only Digital Distribution service and limiting themselves to the one seems like bad business sense. But if they are using Steam at all, then it's safe to say that all boxed copies will certainly use it.

As for Steam itself, i have no problem using it. I play a large majority of my new games through it and It works quite well these days compared to launch (It was a nightmare then and i hated it). I also pick up some great deals, so it's not an issue for me.

If we're honest though this has much more to do with you being disorganized than it does disc-checks versus online activation. I have all my games alphabetically sorted and it takes about 2 seconds to find the game I want to install. I have all my installed games' discs in a holder on my desk for easy and quick access. If you're constantly "looking for discs" and such then it just means you need to organize your collection. I'm not attacking you by the way, I am just saying that's not really a downside of disc-checks unless you cause it yourself.

Online activation means the game might not install someday. As I look at my collection I see tons of games from dead publishers like Fox Interactive for No One Lives Forever, or Spectrum Holobyte for Star Trek: The Final Unity. If those games required online activation they would be unplayable today, because those publishers are dead. You can't count on re-releases either as many games get tied under legal rights issues and are too expensive to re-release, like say Westwood's Blade Runner game. For games that activate online someday you might need to crack them to get to work right, which could arguable be called illegal or immoral, and it's just not right to force that decision on the customer if you ask me. DRM doesn't work anyway, Steam DRM certainly does not, so why do it? Why punish the paying consumer when it doesn't work anyway?

Even if you buy Fallout: New Vegas on D2D, you still have to use Steam to play it. The same will most likely hold true for Skyrim as well.


This is why I really dislike online activations too. I'm at the mercy of others to be able to play the game I bought.

The physical hard copy is slowly being phased out. As broadband penetration increases, we'll see within the next ten years the eventual and complete demise of the hard copy game. That's just the way the industry is going. I don't like it anymore than you do, having amassed a PC gaming collection for 20 years now. As far as DRM goes, Steam is a pretty good online platform, at least now it is. Valve are not really concerned with Piracy, because it doesn't really hurt their sales at all. Steam is first and foremost an Online Distribution Service, not copy protection. Developers who publish their games through Steam are guaranteed 60% from the sale of each game, which is far more than developers get when under the thumb of one of the large publishing houses. it's actually been quite beneficial to a number of budding new Indie PC developers who have released some brilliant games. There are plenty of pluses to using it.

I have a Steam account. I like steam. I can surf the website for Demos and game info. But I doubt I will use digital download since I want a physical copy of the games I buy not some rental agreement that can be terminated at any time. I have found that steam DRM is easy and painless. So fear not, steam is your friend as opposed to GFWL where I also have an account and have received nothing of value.

Even physical copies of the game will require Steam, so it's the same as a digital download.

the problem is that the disc version is being made dial-up unfriendly in a time when there are still many people who don't have access to a broadband connection.

I guess Beth doesn't want my business again.