I laugh at the stupidity of it all.

Let Steam users get a one week advantage to prevent the zero day pirating. Installing the disc based game, you're asked weather you want the steam verification which doesn't require a disc, or a product key verification which will require a disc. It is true that this system works better as a usage preventer for online games which can check for duplicate keys and ban them for online play (Arma2 Operation Arrowhead uses this system). It is also true that none of these systems are any good at preventing copying. And let's face it, no "normal users" are able to break the disc check so that you and your neighbor can play the game at the same time - those days are long gone.

Waiting the additional week for the store game to arrive, while Steam download version enforces its DRM, is it worth it? To me, it doesn't matter at all, because the stores are ALWAYS late on getting the games I want anyway. Be aware, note that my tone will change on release day

In case it's unclear, I won't buy anything "online based". Many bought PS3 rather than XB360 for its possibility to run Linux on it. In an update they pretty much forced on you, that was suddenly removed. If I buy a car, I won't have them suddenly revert the deal and say "no sorry, you can only have two wheels, please return the other two". Software (and hardware) industry, just a bunch of lying scumm thinking they can change deals as they see fit and get away with it.

I'm also quite amazed by some of the posts here that goes in the direction of "there is nothing wrong with it" followed by "it's annoying"... Just... Wow...

Wow, the ignorance runs rampant. There are no in game ads, you saw wrong yes you did (unless it's Bad Company 2, that's the game not Steam). You can turn off people talking to you in game. I once saw someone say being able to store games in "the cloud" meant you couldn't save games onto your pc as well. Maybe instead of hating something because you apparently just want to hate it you could try some research.

That being said, they could just make it so the retail copies don't require steam and use a different drm. Unless it's just a disk check and/or cd key, both laughably easy to hack, you'll probably end up with some bull that's worse than you imagine steam to be.

I did. Your statements contradict what I saw with my own eyes. Since my eyes cannot lie to me.....



Somehow I doubt that. I can't conceive of much worse than a wholly intrusive malware application that monitors my game usage, flings ads in my face at random, and locks me out if I happen to type in a CC# wrong. Oh, and none of this has a thing to do with the DRM. I'd be fine if *ALL* they used was the DRM, but I think I can already tell that's just not going to happen if Steam gets chosen.

Gothic 4, Dragon Age, Two Worlds 1, and several other titles I can't think of at the moment all had the right idea. A one-time authentication check to a server somewhere, and then no further communication whatsoever unless I initiated it for some reason. No accounts required other than the one Dragon Age made me get to satisfy the DRM. Surely all of these are infinitely better than letting an uninvolved 3rd party control the destiny of your entire game collection?

Can you explain it a little bit more. You mean like actually in the game? What game? And how?

It's really hard to believe you, one because you're being vague, and two because I've never had this happen or heard anyone else say this has happened to them.

[edit] Nevermind, I just looked it up and apparently Valve is going to be adding functionality to steam developers to where they can put advertisemants into the games. And games have had ads in them. But they haven't been done by Valve themselves, and they don't plan on making it a Steam feature that will be in all games. It's mainly for indie developers or something so they'll be able to develop games that otherwise would have not made it on the shelves.

But since you've already tried steam I can't blame you for not liking it. I used to not like the idea of it, but when I tried it I ended up liking it a lot. So for anybody who's refusing to try it, just at least give it a shot. I don't really think it's intrusive like others have said.

...don't buy it on Steam :whistling:

Well lately games have been made so even if you get it from the store you'll have to install steam to install the game.

Sounds like the best plan.
I doubt Skyrim will require Steam. I don't think any game requires Steam, and if so, they're very few.
You can buy it in store, or on Steam or on another DD service. Perhaps you can activate a store bought Skyrim on Steam, too. But that wouldn't be a requirement.

So, basically... it will be no more than a choice of preference. So it's not even an issue at all.

It's not really about Steam, but Steamworks. If you buy a Steamworks game in a retail store (Half-Life 2, Fallout: New Vegas and others), you will still need Steam to play the game.

The last two PC games published by Bethesda Softworks used Steamworks and require Steam. I would be surprised if it's not the case with Skyrim too.

Oh, Steamworks does that? I didn't know...

Well, then although I've nothing against Steam (au contraire, I like it), I hope Skyrim doesn't has that. If it has, the freedom of choice would be somewhat broken, IMO...

I know about F:NV, what's the other one? Also, I'd seen it mentioned before that Steam was Obsidian's choice and Bethesda had nothing to do with that. Any truth to this?

http://www.roguewarrior.com/, released about a year ago.


Not at all. The publisher decide how the game will be distributed, not the developer.

Does anyone here have Bad Company ? After installing it you can choose if you want to activate it online and, thus never have to insert your disc ever again, or if you want to use a simple disc check, every time you start the game. This is imo the best form of DRM. I used the first way to do it and didnt have any problems. Even that old argument that when losing your system you will lose an activation didnt apply to me. I recently had a very bad virus which stopped my computer to reach Windows. So I had to completely reformat my partition that had my Operating System on it, and reinstall Windows. The good thing for me was, that my games where all installed on the other partition, that was not affected by the virus. So I only had to put in the registry values into my registry, so that the game thinks it was installed correctly (which I found herre: http://www.regfiles.net/) and voila - The game still worked, no new installation and loss of activation keys for me. For me this is the best DRM ever, if you dont want to use a system like Ubisoft, which apparently worked for HAWX, but also dont want to make it too simple by using a disc check. And btw, the service for this DRM does NOT constantly require running, even when not playing the game, as some suggested. Proven by the fact that I didnt even install the game, after reformatting.

In most cases, yes. Not all contracts determine it this way, but it is the most common way.
And Brink is confirmed to use Steamworks. With Hunted and Rage also first available on there, it's pretty safe to say that Bethesda Softworks will use it for every game they have announced.

That would work perfectly fine for me. Gothic 4 and Two Worlds 1 both use the same sort of deal, only you have to activate over the internet. You can't just use a disc check. But, like Bad Company, once that's done you never have to deal with it again.

And that is different from Steam how...?

1. You dont have to install another programm
2. You dont have to create an account
3. You dont have to start said programm every time you want to play the game
4. You can install the game on multiple Computers without the hassle of using only one account
5. You have a choice
6. Its faster.

And regarding the steam auto-update function: Bad Company 2 has that too, works perfectly fine.

1. Okay, if you don't have the 100MB to spare or need those 20MB memory it takes.
2. True.
3. See 1
4. Why is that a hassle?
5. True.
6. Okay, if you need those ten seconds Steam needs to load up if you don't start it with your OS because of #1.

Oh I agree, we don't have to accept the current business model, though if we can't get it changed then there's really no other choice. I highly doubt transferable licenses will happen anytime soon though, for one simple reason. It's not financially efficient. A company will not and should not willingly lose money if there's a way around it or a good enough reason for it. Allowing people to share licenses freely would mean a signifigant profit decrease.

Junctions and hard links aren't quite THAT hardcoe of a concept. Just make sure to read up on them before using them.

This makes it very easy:
http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html

You can "junction" the Steam install folder to another folder for more easy access. You can either, while Steam is closed, move the appropriate folder somewhere else then pick the link source and drop a junction for Steam to use or alternatively right click and pick link source for the folder Steam uses then drop a junction wherever you want (you can rename the junction too though I usually keep it the same name as the original folder).

I use these to keep track of mods sometimes such as when they add textures and meshes. The ability to do this is built into NTFS and Windows. They just keep it hidden and only usable via the command line normally to not confuse people with stuff most users wouldn't ever use. The program I linked to just adds right click context menus to deal with it.

As to Steam, I'm mixed. If they let you download any time you want and not use a disc then I'm for it. If not, meh.

Restating what others have already said - Steam doesn't really protect the game, it's crackable. So it being optional for those who want is not such a bad idea, really.

No, it's like telling you that you WILL die ('cause, y'know, you will) and asking you whether you'd like to do it through Steam or some other DRM. Steam may be just as ineffective as other DRM software, but as far as I'm concerned it's the lesser of many evils. Skyrim WILL have DRM, so it may as well be Steam.



Besides, it's likely 90% of the "I WONT BY SKYRIM IF IT REQUIRES STEAM" crowd will end up buying it in the end anyway.

Hmm, also sadly, though I agree with you, this is probably part of the plan of any company doing PC releases these days... push people towards consoles because piracy is much more controlled there.

But there is only one way to protect your game now - that is to give it quality online capability such that people **want** to join the mainstream online community and would rather not get pirated software because they couldn't join the crowd (eg. starcraft 2, XBL, PSN).

I'd rather Bethesda scrapped all DRM and just hosted awesome co-op matchmaking servers - less piracy, constant game updates, playing Skyrim with my bro - everyone wins! Which would you rather have, DRM or elder scrolls coop?

When it comes to me, I never paid full price for a Steamworks game, and doubt I ever will. Instead I wait until I can buy it for 5e on a Steam sale.

I much prefer Steam over disk checks, but maybe that's just me. :shrug: