It takes seconds to become a hero, we are I think given no details of how he accomplished these things, kills a deathclaw by himself but no details of what weapons were used etc, saved a squad but no details of how......a squire picking up a nuke grenade and throwing it back (maybe even accidentally killing the attackers) could have saved his squad, doesn't mean he was running around at twelve with a minigun in each hand and a mini nuke in his teeth. I'd say the acts are probably true, since it would be common knowledge among the rank and file (and led to a lot of personal loyalty to Maxson) but that we are being given a glossy offical version, mainly because it helps him gain influence back on the West Coast.

That's basically what I'm saying, and I agree.

I said before, there's probably a grain of truth in all of these stories. But they've been embellished. Perhaps Maxson was out on a patrol with a squad as part of his training, they actually did run into trouble, and maybe he did kill a couple raiders and help his squad eliminate the threat. But 'saving them' sounds a bit like embellishment.

Perhaps the deathclaw he killed was wounded or young, or perhaps he had a squad of paladins backing him up and he just did the killing blow. But the way it reads makes it sound like he grappled with a full grown deathclaw single-handedly like Davie Crockett wrasslin' a bear.

I mean this is how Quinlain ends the entries:

Arthur Maxson is happy to be one thing...the perfect human specimen, and example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.

"The perfect human specimen" sounds like glorification. Quinlain's biography doesn't really read like a completely objective historical document. It sounds like tales of Maxson's youth have been embellished and glossied up a bit in order to be a good hero story.

That's all I'm saying.

How does that make Maxson good?

Look, Bethesda's writing is, to be kind, of inconsistent quality.

Are these things realistic. No. Are they going to be official canon. Almost certainly.

It doesn't. but its also not a negative as it was portrayed since it is the way every faction destroys the Institute.

It doesn't.

Being the only faction leader besides Preston to actively send men and women out into the wasteland to save people is what makes Maxson good.

And it's canon so if you disagree with that assessment, you are 200% wrong. It happens in game and cannot be argued at all.

Yeah Quinlain is a little bit creepy in his devotion.....I'd say though that the status Maxson holds with his men and women under his command demonstrates that he isn't a fiction created by good press from Quinlain, although it is obvious that Quinlain is polishing those tales for the home market (West Coast BOS) to increase Maxson's status amongst those that don't know him personally.

Actually, the Railroad does the same thing.

Agreed. Like I said, he's undoubtedly a capable guy. I can't imagine one becomes Elder without having at least some quality of leadership. He's charismatic if nothing else.

I just think that biography we get of him is not 100% the hard cold facts. Its Quinlain painting a thick coating of gloss over some nuggets of truth IMO.

[citation needed]

If the BoS were portrayed as a professional military organization, respectful to everyone, even-headed, clearly sane, rational and at least open-minded enough to learn from their mistakes, I'd have no problem with them.

As it is, they are inescapably portrayed as amateurish, arrogant, hot-headed, megalomaniac, irrational, dogmatic, prigs who the SS can easily decimate if they choose and who cannot achieve anything of note in the Commonwealth without the help of the SS.

WHY!? Do they just fly around taking potshots at baddies? Why don't they actually hold ground? As you play more, if the BoS was intended to be a potent force: a. you would note that vertibirds no longer blew up regularly; b. you would notice more and more areas controlled by BoS, including checkpoints; and c. you would see the BoS interacting with traders, and other NPCs establishing relationships, perhaps even honing in on YOUR allied settlements.

Perhaps it has more to do with the overall design of the game world in which the SS is inevitably going to wind up either dead, or the hero of everything. But in any event, I cannot accept them getting into firefights and taking 50% casualties (including having incredibly valuable vertibirds downed by the dozens) as anything except a clear indication that they are clowns, and arrogant, impolite clowns on top of that.

So evidence points to Maxson being a courageous and capable warrior, maybe even an effective field commander. As I have pointed out, the organizational aspects of his invasion of the Commonwealth are laughably amateurish and his demeanor when relating to subordinates and strangers alike is more akin to Conan the Barbarian than to even Alexander the Great, much less Abraham Lincoln.

Having killed some stuff and braved death valiantly doesn't make him a great leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower#World_War_I before he was appointed as Supreme Commander of Allied Forces.

Seriously you guys who think being a tough guy with a scar on your face and an unswerving dogmatic determination makes a character a "great leader" need to wake up and smell the coffee. Some great leaders and/or great military leaders have shown great courage and capability in combat, some have not. Being a great leader, even a great leader of military operations does not necessitate proven combat ability at all, though it might never hurt.

They only protect synths. They couldn't care less about what happens to the rest of the wasteland. There are no checkpoints run by the winning faction in a RR ending. They don't have troops defending people from being killed by the various threats in the wasteland like raiders or super mutants, they don't have the potential to develop the Commonwealth like the Institute can with the SS in charge, and Mama Murphy's vision after a RR ending makes it clear that they only focus on helping synths and don't do a damn thing to help out the rest of the Commonwealth. Heck, Deacon outright complains that Des isn't doing anything to help out the rest of the Commonwealth.

So no, the RR isn't doing the same thing unless you think synth lives >>>> human lives

Vertibirds were probably nerfed so that the player -- if he went rr or institute -- wouldn't have a boss fight every five minutes.

This. Lore trumps gameplay everytime. If it didn't, then some mutated hillbilly is more durable and dangerous with his fists than an Enclave member using energy weapons in power armor.

In reply to that post, the Railroad does, indeed, send men and women out into the wasteland to save people. They focus on synths, true, but the Brotherhood isn't exactly saving all people either. I don't favor either ending (I'm wavering between peaceful Minutemen and Institute), but I also believe that the Railroad gets too little credit.

Also, the Sole Survivor becomes a faction leader who goes out to save people if they lead the Institute.

[citation needed]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Boston_After_Dark

Where exactly did you get the idea that the RR helps people other than synths from that mission. Did you forget that the person saved in that quest is a SYNTH? The only reason the raiders were killed is because they were the way.

In what way does that quest disprove anything we said?

The only way the statement "the Railroad doesn't save people" makes sense is if you don't consider synths to be people.

They do hold ground, I regularly come across the Brotherhood on the ground (true they are usually there after dropping in and killing the bad guys).......also after the ending the Brotherhood starts setting up checkpoints since the Immediate threat of the Institute is ended. Frankly the only way the Brotherhood can counter the ability of the Institute Synths to appear anywhere is to remain mobile since there is no way that they can attack the Institute. Until that threat is removed checkpoints would just be easily overwhelmed by the Institute at will.

They aren't people, they are machines, they're just made with parts that resemble human faces. I guarantee nobody would care about synths if they all looked like terminators.

Also, saving some machines is NOT worth essentially screwing the Commonwealth. Ignoring the destruction of the BOS, the MM ARE weaker in a RR so the Commonwealth is less safe because of the RR.

Are you saying having entire settlements slaughtered is OK because some machines are saved?

Screw your assumptions. I extend the same considerations of personhood to the intelligent robots such as Codsworth and Curie as well.

I told you already that I don't take the Railroad ending. I'm either going with the Minutemen ending where every non-Institute faction survives, or the Institute one.

Someone seems butthurt. A machine is a machine. Codsworth may have a personality but it's obvious that his personality is a bit deranged. I can be friends with machines but I'm not going to extend the same benefits of considering humanity for them.

If my toaster started talking, I wouldn't consider it a person. A machine is a machine. You just don't get it.

Bunkerhill is one of their bases.

So, no. They don't protect the commonwealth. I'm glad we could clear that up.

I think its clear from the game that the Railroad only cares about Synths, it regularly puts humans in harms way often without their knowledge to protect Synths........the argument whether Synths (and indeed other Robots with personalities) deserve to be treated as if they were human is a different discussion. There really shouldn't be any discussion of the Railroad as anything other than a Synth first organisation, the polar opposite of the Institute which regards them appliances and the Brotherhood who regard them as a threat to human existence.