The fact that Maxson possesses qualities that good leaders have doesn't necessarily make him a good leader.

For people pointing out Hitler was charismatic too. So was FDR, so was Lincoln, so was George Washington, so were a lot of actually good leaders. Caesar was a very charismatic person which is how he became the leader of S.P.Q.R. and why Augustus managed to gather enough support among the Romans to not only rebuild Rome's power but increase it and construct a monarchy which Romans kinda hated (The reason the Roman Republic was founded was because of the tyranny of the Roman king)

I can name both good and bad leaders throughout history that used charisma to gain support among people and who used that power for good or bad. Maxson being charismatic doesn't make him bad, in fact I would say a lot of his points are good. He isn't fighting because he views someone as lesser or because he believes them to be the reason behind everyone's woes, he is fighting because he honestly believes that ferals, super mutants and synths are all a threat to humanity with proof.

Super mutants do nothing but eat and kill humans, their entire thing is genocidal insane mutants to the point some will graft a mini-nuke to their arm and run into enemies to kill them. Ferals can't be reasoned with and while there may be prejudice against non-feral Ghouls among BoS that doesn't mean they attack non-hostile Ghouls. Synths and the Institute are the boogeymen of the commonwealth. If someone goes missing the Institute is blamed, sometimes the people come back but this time they're a synth and it's discovered, a synth was responsible for a massacre in the middle of Diamond City's market, a Synth is said to have killed every member of the CPG, the Institute wiped out an entire town with Synths and the fact Synths escape and become independent of the commonwealth shows they can break from the leash of their masters and that puts the threat at a higher risk.

Maxson can seem to be a bad guy sure but honestly I don't see someone Hitler-esque, I see someone who uses what they know about their enemy through encounters and stories. Hitler uses the Jewish and other people he saw as undesirable as a means to gain power through lies and propaganda to create a common enemy for the Germans to blame all their problems on whereas Maxson looks at what he sees of the wasteland, looks at the problems caused by super mutants, ferals and synths, problems that everyone can see and builds a conclusion that they must be taken care of.

My only complaint of Maxson is he rules with emotion instead of logic sometimes which can be a very dangerous thing for a leader.

Thats a naive view on things... Sure you can talk and reason with people but people tend to lie.


From the perspective of a leader it makes sense to be active and try to do the first step. What happens if they would tollerate synths and some of these synths start to plant bombs, poison people etc just for revenge or maybe because of some code/mission remained in their system even after the institute was nuked.


I mean even nowadays/real world on airports its not enough to talk to people. Even if you can talk and reason with them it doesnt mean they wouldnt do anything bad.

And we could handle it way better than the mankind in fallout if something bad goes off. I mean civilisation has been hit so hard they have to be very careful. They dont have enough worker, scientists and whatever to replace them everytime in case they put their trust into the wrong ghoul/synth.


I mean how would you feel if everybody could come into your country and sit right next to you just because you can talk and reason with them? Some background and security check is definitely in your interest. Or would you accept to have a new neighbour with the name "al bagdadi" just because the security was able to talk with him and he replied polite and thoughtfull? Sooner or later you would regret it...

Sure he is. Mad as a hatter and as unhinged as half the doors across the Commonwealth.

No, it just makes him a person who possesses qualities a good leader should possess. Which is hardly a reason for making Hitler comparisons.

Hitler comparisons are always stupid. I always find it curious when people start to pull Hitler out of the hat when they don't like someone's attitude.

That said, there's that quest on the Boston airport. The one with the missing supplies. If you find the time to talk to the guy at the end, you get the feeling that there are BOS members questioning the all out approach of the Brotherhood.

Haylen also questions it when you get to Blind Betrayal

Uhm... Right now,that's the case in Germany.Should we refuse the refugees too just because the COULD be dangerous? Just saying,but think of it.



By the way I think I made my sentence with Hitler unclear.

Back then on Germany the people (soldiers) blindly believed what he said.

He was crazy,people knew it,those against him or his beliefs got executed,people/races he didn't like -> executed.

That's the only part of what reminds me of him in Maxson as character.

Madison Li said Maxson lost his mind,he's crazy and makes use of his power in the wrong way.(I could record it but it'd be in German and completely useless to you. Try talking to her aboard the Prydwen after you blew up the Institute.)


I don't know...I just don't like his attitude.

He's actually the only character I really can't stand.


Of course you can't be 100% sure that nothing will happen after the Institute's gone. But 'Father ' said everything they believe in and everything they worked hard on is inside the Institute. Means,all recall codes got blown up as well.

Sure if a Synth/Ghoul or even a human goes on rampage there must be consequences.

But I think after blowing up the Institute the Synths are just as much as a threat as any other human being.

Seriously what difference does it make if a human decides to end his life by blowing himself up and killing hundreds of people or if a synth does it?

The people are dead anyways.

I hope you get what I'm coming from.

not disagreeing its just all of these things can also be said about Hitler if you replace "brotherhood" with "Nazi party" except Hitler did not really fight like how Maxon sent you to kill Dance instead of getting his hands dirty himself.

Still using some least common denominator argument I see.


Waaaaahh! He's not nice or stroking my ego because he's a military leader in a military organization. That obviously means he's Hitler!!! Waaahh


He's hates the genocidal man-eating monsters who have lost all their reasoning capabilities and is waging war against them, waaahhh!!! He's a bigot.


I know it's the internet, but grow up people, seriously.

Hitler never ate anyone, learn history. He just killed a bunch of people because they were different and launched a war to take over Europe and said he was doing it for Germany and it's people like how Maxon says he is doing it for the Commonwealth and it's people.

1) I was talking about Supermutants. Supermutants are the future! This is the age of the supermutant. Blah blah blah


2) Synths aren't a species. They aren't alive and they don't procreate so it isn't genocide. If that's the case if apple or samsung ever discontinues their phones I expect you to picket sign on the account that they're committing genocide.

oh you meant super mutants, as I recall in New Vegas not all of them were bad and wanted to kill you, just because a lot of them do in this game does not make me hold any prejudus against them as a whole and Synths were created by man just as you were created by your parents they just live longer and are probably smarter than you.

That guy is a complete idiot. He's feeding feral ghouls precious supplies, because... um... 'waaah', I guess. I would have blown his head off without hesitation except I had Danse with me and he wouldn't have liked it, so I made him turn himself in instead. Still exterminated all his precious zombies though.

Except the ones Maxson kills are 'different' in that they kill and eat the people of the Commonwealth for god's sake. Supermutants and ferals aren't people, they're monsters. You can count the exceptions on the fingers of one hand, that's not enough to allow the rest to freely slaughter settlers just because a single supermutant among the hundreds you kill might have been relatively ok.

Why not? Deathclaws are chumps. I would rather fight eight deathclaws than six mirelurks.

I see nothing wrong with treating super mutants like humans, with the violent ones being the same thing as raiders.

The issue with synths is a bigger one, however.

Well the Brotherhood doesn't kill Strong.

Or Nick.

Or Hancock.

Or Goodneighbor.

So, what is your complaint?

I do not see how its an issue after talking to Dance while he thought he was human, bigotry is a very human response and Nick Valentine who risked his own mind to help you find your son. why would you destroy them just because of how they were conceived and because of their extended lifespan?

Let's try to keep things cool shall we. This thread wasn't supposed to be about your personal feelings towards Maxson, but whether he is a good (not necessarily moral) leader or not and if he is a good (not necessarily moral) choice as ruler of The Commonwealth. Perhaps some people could go a post or two without reference to a certain Austrian with a funny moustache.

Maxson clearly demonstrates many qualities of an effective leader. Additionally we have no reason not to take him at his word that he genuinely cares about the fate of humanity (humans). He would likely be a beneficent if authoritarian leader, but perhaps at this stage of development this is what The Commonwealth needs. I note that he doesn't like NON-feral ghouls but you are never asked to kill, or even oppress them. Also he promotes the SS to Sentinel, so he probably is going to appoint the SS as his Military Governor over The Commonwealth, when he returns to The Citadel. This gives the BOS Player, just as much right to 'head canon' a just and merciful rule as the Institute Player, perhaps more so.

I think one thing we need to consider in these debates, is that all of the factions are somewhat hamstrung by Bethesda's writing.

Leaving out possible diplomatic options to achieve faction goals and resorting to a thermonuclear coup de grace is just not realistic. There is no faction in this game that one can reasonably argue would set off a nuclear explosion in metro Boston. Not even the Railroad. Also when the Institute attacked the airport, the Prydwen would have launched its Veritbirds and retreated out of the danger area. The Railroad attack on Prydwen is more reasonable but reflects poorly on that faction and I don't think even Desdemona is that cold hearted.

Also the BOS and Institute dealing with The Railroad could have been handled in a less ham-fisted manner with some more creative writing.

At least for us PC players, hopefully the modding community can address some of these issues.

I spare Danse, but like Nick I make sure he knows that he's a machine.


Nick is the only non-institute Synth with functioning programming. He knows what he is and doesn't hide it instead of pretending to be something he isn't. And he doesn't like those RR nutcases so that's a plus.

Exactly. The Brotherhood is attacking a strawman, and murdering actual innocents because of it.

Why is that? The Prydwen is a warship; it's completely a military target.

casually ignoring points that do not support your preconceived notions and argument

nice

Every forum she posts on is like that. She's the super feminist sjw version of a basemant dweller. Don't take it personally.

I said The Railroad attack was more reasonable. But the context of my argument is that Bethesda could have done a better job of writing each of the factions to provide them with less bloodthirsty means of achieving their goals.

Yes. But I think that Airship Down was probably inevitable; the Brotherhood really doesn't seem like it would ever back down from trying to destroy the Institute.