I have seen alot of hate and unflattering comparisons made when people discuss Elder Maxsons. I don't understand this, because i think Bethesda has really captured the essence of a good leader.

Elder Maxsons is:

* Charismatic and an inspiration to his troops

* Driven and committed to the goals of the Brotherhood

* Capable of making hard decisions and setting emotions aside

* Strict and demanding, but knows also when to let things slide

* Willing to get in the trenches and fight along side his soldiers

* Able to see the big picture, a good strategist and a capable tactician

Even the order regarding Danse is logical. The safety of the Brotherhood needs to come first to its leader than personal attachment. What we know to be true about

Danses loyalties is irrelevant, because there is no way to verify and so little is know about synths. He could be transmitting info, he could be lying, he could have a programmed kill switch that

could send him to take out the BoS leadership when no one is expecting it. So taking him out is the most prudent option a Brotherhood leader can make.

I personally like Danse very much, but i also like Elder Maxons. Too often, "good" leaders are portrayed as these benevolent and fatherly types, especially in games. I think

Bethesda really nailed it with Maxons.

If someone disagrees, i would really like your perspective.

But is he the leader we deserve?

Completely agree, I love how they portrayed Maxson in the game. He's a great leader. He's idealistic, very driven and determined and he's pretty much the only leader I can recall from the game.

Well, yes. I guess, according to the OP, Putin fills the bill rather nicely. But I daresay, the "we" in the thread title is a little misleading. Unless "we" is supposed to be some yet unknown group, that is.

The "we" is a vague pop-culture reference, that was caught by at least one other poster in this thread. I am not the biggest fan of Putin, however i think in a post-apocalyptic scenario i would

prefer a leader with a firm hand, rather than a limp wrist.

after siding with the MM/RR the first time I really think I'm going to go BoS the second time, they just seem so much better equipped (obviously) to deal with everything.

Only problem I have with him is he's a bit young and his history is vague.

A bit of background would be nice, Bethesda.

Define "We".

Also, could make a Trump joke, but too lazy ATM.

To OP: no

It is I who will lead the world into a new dawn, a new era, as the director of the institute!

To who?

So? Hitler was inspiring too, doesn't make him good.

Which are? And why are they good for the Commonwealth? Again... Good for who?

Also, Maxon is a Fanatic. This is hardly a good thing.

Translation: I'm too lazy to do any research on the topic while I get my free pass to the institute. And I'm too much of an idiot/too proud to have someone take one apart and see how it operates.

If the Brotherhood did any actual research on their enemies instead of just shouting "AHD VAHCTORHIUM" and blasting them to pieces, they'd know this is complete nonsense. Synths are not walking cameras. Otherwise they wouldn't need messengers to ferry reports to and from the mayor's office in Diamond City.


The idea that he's somehow an Institute spy is not only more strawgrasphing by BOS Fanbrats, but its also complete nonsense. Even X6-88 tells you that the institute had no awareness of Paladin Danse.

Very unlikely. OP is grasping for straws.

Hey Maxon... don't you have a whole bunch of people that are dedicated to finding out this exact thing? You know, the people in your organization who study and work with technology?


They're called scribes. Ever heard of them?


Have a scribe (or if all your scribes are incapable, kindly acknowledge that maybe the BOS really shouldn't be the self-proclaimed technological overlords after all while crying yourself to sleep in a corner find someone who has prior experience working with synths. If the Brotherhood could get its head out of its ideological ass for 10 minutes and do some asking around, they'd quickly find that there are in fact people who have worked with synths in the past *coughdramariorpinkertoncough* and would know about this sort of thing.) and/or a surgeon look over him and look for such a thing. If it exists, get rid of it. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Who knows? You might actually might learn a thing or two about how synths work in the process.

But oooh no. We can't have THAT, now can we?! That might actually make them intelligent.


Sorry OP, but your reasons you listed are exactly the reason he is not a good leader: Because he puts ideology and paranoia ahead of reason and logic. He'd rather play god-emperor war-hero instead of doing what the brotherhood really should be doing: Confiscating dangerous technology, finding out how it works (yes that's important.) and preserving it rather than destroying everything that doesn't fit their worldview.

I agree, Maxson is a great character. He has all the characteristics of a great military leader. In my opinion he's of the best characters Bethesda has made and hope to see him in future content. But, yeah I was pretty bummed I couldn't pal around with my buddy Danse anymore. Definitely my favorite companion.

A fair number of players, if the number of BoS supporters on the forums is any indication.

This is a 'Hitler ate sugar' argument. Charisma and the ability to inspire are good qualities in a leader.

The goals of the Brotherhood are to take dangerous technology from the hands of people who are liable to misuse it. They are good for the common people of the Commonwealth who just want to tend to their crops and live relatively peaceful lives, as the Brotherhood also ensures their safety from more mundane threats like supermutants, ferals and raiders. A task they by no means have to pursue, as they themselves are powerful enough to not be threatened by such hazards. Yet they ceaselessly send patrols to make the Commonwealth a better place for farmers to live in.

What exactly makes Maxson a fanatic in your eyes? I saw him as an incredibly flexible and reasonable leader for his age.

Synths, especially gen-3's, are a product of decades of research using incredibly advanced technology. You can't in good faith tell me you'd expect a military commander leading an assault against a powerful faction to dedicate god knows how much time and resources to a project that has a slight possibility of discovering whether an enemy planted in your midst is actually dangerous or not. Considering the circumstances, I think Maxson allowing Danse to live at all is him being incredibly lenient, and shows how much he values the SS's opinion. Honestly, Danse wouldn't need to be a walking camera at all, all it would take was a gen-3 or some other Institute agent walking into Cambridge Police Station and using his recall code to change his directives. It's simply impossible to rule him out as a threat at that time, as everything about 'Paladin Danse' is a lie. Even Danse himself realizes this. It's not about whether he is a spy, it's about how easily he could be one.

And another thing - there is an entry on one of the SRB terminals referring to a synth present at Boston Airport that can't be retrieved due to the area being too hazardous to infiltrate...

Excellent post OP. Maxson is an excellent leader, flawed as are all human beings, but excellent nonetheless.

His attitude toward synths is spot on and it is obvious he arrived at it after careful consideration and with input from his team of scribes. It is rational to suspect that a synthetic being, stronger and more resilient than humans, who can be disabled by a code phrase can also be programmed to perform other, possibly violent acts, based on other programmed code phrases.

Instituti delenda est!

Ad Victorium!

I was speaking in general and meant that they have captured the qualities that make a good leader.

Why does it always come down to Hitler? Can you think of no other leader who has been charismatic and inspirational? Alexander the Great, Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Napoleon Bonaparte and etc. I am in no shape or form comparing them to a video game character. I am

simply making a point that all good leaders have have the trait of being either charismatic, inspirational or both. It doesn't matter which side of history they end up in, it is simply a common trait among influential leaders. Especially so among military leaders during times of strife.

The preservation of technology and the human race. They are the only faction actively fighting the threats facing the people of the commonwealth. Less abominations roaming the Commonwealth is good for everyone trying to survive and make a life out there.

"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill

Maxons mind can be changed, for example in case of Danse. Also being devoted to one's cause is not automatically bad thing. It's only when we do not agree with the cause that we call someone a fanatic.

Well i didn't have the option to ask someone from the Institute how exactly to Gen 3 Synths work, nowhere did i find a complete rundown of the capabilities and features of a synth. We know they have a recall code that resets them to factory settings, so it is not

a stretch to suspect other hidden features.

I don't think the Brotherhood has run into any other Gen 3 synths, besides Danse.

How would the Brotherhood know this?

You misunderstood. I know that Danse is not a spy, i know that he bleeds Brotherhood. I was speaking from the point of Maxsons. He acted only once the evidence was irrefutable that Danse was synth. A decision had to be made, when faced with

the possibility of infiltration in the higher ranks of your organisation during war time, by an enemy as enigmatic as the Institute, you don't wait around to see what happens. A leader is responsible for all those under his command and the lives of many

outweigh the life of one.

Maxsons acted on the information that was at hand and he acted correctly.

Someone put Danse out there, given how secretive the Institute is, even among itself, it is not a stretch to assume that a mere courser is not privy to all that goes on in the Institute.

Again, the fact that synths have recall codes, makes it possible for them to have other codes programmed and physical study by a scribe would not reveal such a thing. Amari is a Railroad symphatizer and would not work with the Brotherhood.

We all align ourselves to some form of ideology, be it political or social. The ideology of an organisation is what holds it together and gives purpose to it members, but you have not shown how reason and logic have been left behind. In fact reason and logic is what dictates Maxsons decisions.

You arguments come from emotion and seem to be somewhat passive aggressive.