Or at least a mage equivalent to Werewolves and Vampires.

Vampires fit stealth gameplay, having powers based on hiding about and requiring you to sneak up onto unsuspecting sleepers to feed. Werewolves fit warrior gameplay, being melee berserkers. But what about the mage? The mage doesn't have the blessing/curse thing that warriors and thieves have. The most obvious answer is Lichdom. Liches are good at magic, they are hated by the populace like vampires and werewolves, and I could see a lich form easily done by using an altered Dragon Priest, Skeleton or Draugr model. The last two would be easiest in regards to equipment, since it's hard to make plate armour look good on a floaty thin dude, though one could pull a werewolf and have it be so that you have to be unarmored in your undead form, forcing you to rely on the stoneflesh type spells. Besides, it would be pretty cool to play one.

I'm not necessarily asking for a lich, just a mage curse type thing. For all I care it could be some curse Hermaeus Mora did that he didn't show in the earlier games or turning yourself into a ghost or something new. It's just that I like the whole idea of werewolves and vampirism, and I would like more things like it. Bloodmoon added werewolves to Morrowind, so perhaps a DLC for Skyrim will grant this?

would be cool .-. + would fit lore keep comming across mages who turned them selves into liches ...

i think the big hurdle is, vampirism and lycanthropy are diseases....whereas lichdom is a permenant change that happens when a Mage Enchants themselves and then dies.



Once a lich, always a lich.

I disagree. The Elder Scrolls should have playable lichen.

This. There's no cure for lichdom, because you die for real when it happens, and there's no full-on resurrection in the Elder Scrolls universe. It would also make the game pretty much unplayable. As a werewolf or vampire, there are ways to blend in to society. Liches are liches, and thus you can't complete any quests ever again.

Maybe a http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8SE5owAIPmk#t=190s is more what you're looking for.

You could probably pull off a lich if you are powerful enough to maintain your original form like Mannimarco did but the thing is thats nearly impossible without becoming a god, the only reason Mannimarco can do it is because he ascended via the mantella.

It's not hard to make a quest where you are able to turn back into your normal self.
For example, you can visit a priest of one of Nine Divines and have a quest which will earn you a favor of god(s) and they will return you to your normal self.
Or you could go to the CoW and have one of the mages give you a quest which will result in you bending your own spacetime and returning you to normal.
Also, liches could gain some illusions spells which would help them blend in and therefore not breaking the game.

The point is, there are ways to make lichdom have a cure and making it playable.

No he is not.

OT:
Yes, yes and yes!
There are tons of awesome bonuses they could give to liches (one of them being that you can have one more extra Dead Thrall, for example).
It would be simply awesome if Beth releases a DLC with Necromancer's Guild and lichdom.

And I'm bored with this reasoning. Just because you can make it work doesn't mean you should. Some things are better left out.

How do you know what he's looking for? If he assigns vampires as a stealth archetype and werewolves as a warrior, then I'd say from the looks of it, a Vampire Lord fits the role of mage perfectly. Don't make assumptions of what he wants based on what you want.

I really see no reason why something like that shouldn't be done.

Title of the thread and the OP kinda helped.

Yes, but you would need to first play as a vampire which are made for stealth archetype, not mages.
It's like saying that you would need Heavy Armor, Enchanting and Alchemy skills in order to get better at unarmed combat... o wai-
Still, even if there is no cure for lichdom, I don't see a problem with it.
All they need to do is to highlight the fact that once you become a lich you can't go back and that's that.
But then again, there is no need for that since I think that Bethesda can think of a good way to make lichdom curable.

Because it would probably end up like vampirism and lyncanthropy, where it's not as vastly different of an experience as it should be, and it would undermine every lich we've ever encountered in game.


Who says you need to play as a vampire first? Maybe you can go straight from mortal to Vampire Lord. Even if you did have to play as a vampire first, it's not like you have to be a stealth type for the brief period of time between being mortal and a Vampire Lord.

Plus, there's pretty much no lore on Vampire Lords and how they work. Plenty of opportunity to expand on lore without wrecking past lore. Being a lich is a huge experience that you can't come back from. It makes you an undead monster. It's been hyped game after game, and I just don't think it would work as a playable experience without being vastly disappointing.

That's a good point, actually.

Touche!

Well, it kinda sounds logical that you should first become a vampire and then a vampire lord.

Tbh, I wouldn't have anything against non-reversible lichdom (in fact, I would prefer it that way).
And I think it would be kinda boring to have practically same creature for different archetypes.
I personally believe that there is a good potential for lichdom in Skyrim.

Bluh, taking my character that I put hard work into and replacing it with a generic repainted dragon priest model permanently? No thank you.

Though I doubt Bethesda could actually release that vampire lord mod seeing as how it's a carbon copy of Marcus from Underworld 2 and there would likely be a copyright claim.

I'd like to see a playable lich mode. The problems could easily be fixed with a few simple ideas.

For turning back into a mortal, one could attempt a quest to put their soul into a phylactery and then go about possessing another mortal.
From there you could morph his/her appearence to fit your old appearence via some kind of dark ritual, perhaps with Clavicus Vile or hagravens involved.

Entering a city and doing quests for the locals should be obtainable as well. My own suggestion would be to have a servant that'd smuggle
your corpse into the city from a coffin, then you could imply him or her to 'mingle with the locals' accessing quests otherwise impossible to get in your usual
form. When you have gained a certain amount of locales trust, you could attempt to walk around in public in an overcloaked, albeit walking form.

All in all, if you put your mind to it, you could think of solutions to the interruptions in gameplay. ES would be fun with lich gameplay and I for one support this.


It's more of a mix between Dracula from Van Helsing and Marcus from Underworld II. And it's not like either of them summoned a small troop of imps to their side.

Player's lich model can be different from that of Dragon Pries, you know.
It could also be made so you can customize you lich also.

I wanted playable Lich in Skyrim, but if you become a Lich you stay a Lich. Im sick of these flipflopping states of being in TES, it cheapens them. Like how you are just given the power of werewolfism after your first fetch quest for the companions. To me that totally cheapened the whole of Bloodmoon and the efforts of Nerevar... its like, just fought off a god, but can go hang out with werewolfes a day after joining the companions.

I doubt this will make it into the game, nive try tho

A mage-oriented "cursed form" is a fine idea, but a lich isn't it. For one, it's too mage-centric... a mage and thief can be a werewolf, and a mage and warrior can be a vampire, without impeding much on their play styles. But how would a thief or warrior play as a lich? Not to mention that lichdom itself doesn't grant power. The power comes from all the extra time you suddenly have for study and practice.

There's also that werewolves and vampires are essentially temporary forms. You become a werewolf when you want, then change back after a short amount of time, and you become detectable as a vampire only by not feeding for three days, then change back by feeding. A lich is a lich, always and forever. Rotting flesh, no muscle, all of it. "An illusion spell" is such a cop-out, particularly since it's never occurred before even among the most powerful liches of Tamriel's history (probably couldn't get rid of the smell). Plus a simple Dispel would reveal you.

Then there's the matter of a cure. Not even the best mages have been able to fully resurrect someone to their pre-death state. Vampires work because the body is still intact, it just needs to get your biological functions going again after removing the Daedric taint. Going "divine intervention" would also be a cop-out, especially if you made yourself a lich on purpose in the first place.


I don't think a Vampire Lord would work either. A Vampire Lord would be a more powerful Vampire, and it doesn't make sense that a Vampire Lord would be so different gameplay-wise from a regular Vampire.


Unfortunately I can't think of any known creature that would make sense for a mortal to be cursed to become, which could still allow you to function in society for the most part, and would grant boosts to mage abilities while not working against non-mage characters. Maybe some kind of were-atronach, but that seems a bit silly.

I really don't see a reason why lichdom wouldn't give you a cool ability or two, but whatever.
Still, in Tribunal, the lich king does fight you with a sword, so it seems that a lich can something other than a mage.
Even if it couldn't that wouldn't be too big of a problem.

There is no more dispel in TES.
And what's wrong with the illusion spell?

Mind explaining what's wrong with having a deity returning you to your normal form?
And even if there isn't a cure, so what?
Actually, I would prefer it that way myself.
Finally an action you do would have an actual consequence.

I still think that a lich is a perfect one.
So what it doesn't allow you to be warrior or a thief?
Some things are simply not for some characters.
And I don't see why help from one of the Divines isn't a cure good enough, but like I said, even if it doesn't have a cure, it's fine.
Only thing I find a bit of a problem atm is how will hide the fact that you are a lich.
For now, I say an illusion/alteration spell will do the trick!

Resurrection in the sense of a spirit or reanimated corpse returning to its original mortal body has literally never happened in TES. Even Umaril was only able to cheat death by essentially becoming a Daedra, and he was himself divine anyhow. If resurrection is possible, why didn't the Eight and One bring back Pelinal, or Uriel Septim, or Nerevar? It seems to me that they are all more worthy than some filthy lich.

EDIT: And given that nobody really uses illusion magic for the purpose of completely changing his appearance (besides the Tribunes), I'm guessing that's not really practical either. It'd probably be a constant drain on one's magicka.

Thieves and mages can use swords, too. It just goes against the whole idea of being a rotting corpse that you can still sneak and swing a warhammer with the best of them.

Just because Skyrim doesn't have it doesn't mean it's gone forever. Who knows if a DLC or free patch will reintroduce it.

Because it feels like a cheap cop-out. If it was so easy to hide what you really are with an illusion spell, why don't more people (especially powerful ex-Psijics like Mannimarco) do it? Why did vampires have to enter into a pact with Clavicus Vile to blend in with people if they could instead simply cast a spell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina. A contrived plot device to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem. It would have to be really well done to explain why a god would restore your life, when A) the Aedra never have direct influence on the world like that, B) the Daedra have limited capacity to influence the world (if they'd even care to help you), and C) you purposely did it to yourself after years of necromantic study for a ritual that takes a helluva lot of concentration. It's not like you go "oops, I'm a lich!? I didn't want this!"

The only one I could see caring enough to act is Meridia, but especially considering you did it to yourself, she'd likely be more interested in your death than "saving" you.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. There may be some merit in making vampirism and lycanthropy uncurable (insofar as gameplay goes, as there are cures in lore), but a mage's cursed form should have the same opportunity to a cure as the other cursed forms.

It's not perfect if it doesn't fit with the design. A warrior's cursed form, a thief's cursed form, and a mage's cursed for should have the same basic core logic. A werewolf and vampire do (temporary gains in power with a drawback to that power), and a lich doesn't fit the mold. Trying to make it fit the mold brings up lore and logistical issues.

It always vampires vs werewolves.

Many already pointed out the "purely just undead" flaws. Werewolves and vampires for the most part still look human.

Honestly the old school Atronach sign is the only thing that come to mind. Huge power boost that left you as a sitting duck if you run out of magic and fighting a warrior. Maybe an Atronach curse?

Flesh Atronach is a monster on Daggerfall that if I recall correctly was never seen again or at least I don't remember it. Immune to paralysis, poison disease and poison attacks can heal it. Take damage from holy places though. Combine that with the old school Atronach sign with a few edits here and there and you may have something balance that exist in the lore.

Flesh atronaches play pretty prominently in the Shivering Isles. They were pretty common enemies, and the Gatekeeper was just a plus-sized version.

I wouldn't have much problem with either it being incurable or having a permanent socially-unacceptable appearance, honestly. The thing with vampirism and lycanthropy having cures is that you can "accidentally" acquire these curses; you might enter combat, get infected with porphyric hemophilia against your will, and for whatever reason, fail to cure it in time. That minor disease is both easy to catch and insubstantial enough to easily forget, and it would be harsh to stick a player with that forever because they didn't notice the text popup or something.

Becoming a lich would be something you would (I should hope) have to seriously go out of your way to accomplish. You're not going to comically trip and fall into a necromancer's ritual circle. Given how common it is for every quest to be cushy, always impossible to fail, always with a convenient backdoor if it seems too hard, I take little issue with making the player actually live with the very obvious consequences of their very clear decision. Being reviled or attacked for your appearance seems more interesting to me than a palette swap and a stat buff, as vampirism tends to be.

Social rejection need not be a death sentence, with improvements in NPC interaction and AI. I'm sure plenty of necromancers would be willing to talk to you, and possibly provide services. More varied behaviors than "hostile/non-hostile" could let you at least approach towns, such as people cowering instead of attacking, a few braver residents being willing to talk as long as you're not hostile, or guards warning you to stay away or be attacked if you get too close, rather than on sight. Reputation systems could let you earn a degree of respect and tolerance, or follower commands could be used to have someone else enter the town and acquire info on some quests in your stead. Additionally, quests could have alternate paths and options for being taken and completed, a path I'd prefer they take regardless of whether there are liches, over the standard route of "talk to this exact person, perform this exact task in this exact way, return to only this one person."

These are all good points, actually.
The thing is, I don't think that mage archetype curse has to fit into a mold like vampirism and lycanthropy.
I really don't see a need for that.
Hell, it's even better if it's special!
But still, for now it doesn't seem that lichdom can be implemented into Skyrim (at least not that easily).
Also, lichdom should come with Necromancer's Guild.
The point is, I came to conclusion that lichdom is too big of a feature and really doubt it will be in Skyrim since it would demand a lot of work.
If Bethesda are willing to do it, then w00t!!1one
If not, then I guess we'll have to wait for a new game.

O yea, I thought he was just a giant or something. The Shivering Isles was a pretty weird place so I didn't even think about that.

Sheogorath turning people into Flesh Atronach sound like something he would do...Along with many other things. A cure on the other hand may require a random long quest.