In Morrowind, http://images.uesp.net//2/25/Dagoth_Ur.jpg himself had a relatively minor presence in the game. He revealed himself during the final battle, and the player was only taunted by his disembodied voice a few times throughout the main quest. People said he was a jerk, but my motivation to kill him came less from a well crafted, personal distaste for the insane God and more from a desire to rid Morrowind of the http://images.uesp.net//2/2f/MW-creature-Ascended_Sleeper.jpg altogether.

Oblivion's http://images.uesp.net//a/ad/OB-npc-Mankar_Camoran.jpg appeared more often, but still never committed any atrocities with his own hands, and his generic appearance made him less intimidating than Dagoth Ur. Similarly, the http://images.uesp.net/2/21/OB-NPC-Agents.jpg weren't as visibly twisted as the 5th house, which removed the horror element from the antagonists that greatly aided Morrowind. http://images.uesp.net//c/c9/Mehrunes_Dagon.jpg never spoke and only appeared, once again, at the end of the game, and he's dispatched rather quickly.

The Guild villains actually fared a bit better. The Dark Brotherhood at least gave the sense of a true monster lurking in your midst, Mannimarco attacked one of the more pleasant groups of mages you had met, and the Blackwood Company turned YOU into the monster, making your revenge against them all the more sweet.

Now, with Skyrim's Dragons revealed to be our new foes, I'm cautiously optimistic that they will be done well. I'm a bit worried by the lack of dialogue from them, which is essential to forming a good villain, but Todd has hinted that some dragons speak English, and I'm certain Alduin will be amongst them. I'm hoping that other Main Quest dragons, presumably Alduins most trusted minions, will each make for interesting antagonists whose presence will be felt throughout the main quest, not just at its climix.

The whole "dragons attack villages" concept could certainly allow Alduin to play a more active role in the game than previous antagonists, destroying innocent people before your eyes and driving home the point that he must be stopped. I think that seeing him once or twice over the course of the MQ, being left in awe of his power and cruelty, should be enough to heighten the suspense for the inevitable final battle with him.

What do you guys think? Both of the villains in previous TES games, and of the possibilities for Alduin to rise above them.

With dragons and their awesomeness Alduin & his group will probably be the best. The most evil thing he could do is kill a quest related NPC, and I think the "Replacement Relative" feature was made just because of this, lol

I'm still hoping for at least one non-Dragon antagonist. He doesn't have to be a crazy relgious freak or anything, but he needs to oppose the Dovahkiin and be menacing.

fairly interesting views on the villain in ES and its pretty much ture. for those who played mass effect 1.... how [censored] obssessed were you concerning getting and killing sarren?

I'm 100% sure that this will happen. Now if that person is related to the main quest...is another.

That is what I meant.

It will be an elf for sure.

Honestly, the villains are the best part of TES games for me. Not so much the final boss, but the organization they're with. I loved the sixth house and wanted to join Ur. I loved the Mythic Dawn and wanted join them haha. For me, the bad guys are typically the most intriguing characters in the game. Obviously, I can't join the dragons and likely won't want to. But as a constant threat, my hope is that they're significantly more difficult to kill than they looked when Todd was killing them without much effort in the footage we've all seen. My hope is that he was just ridiculously high level, because those were two minute fights and didn't look very challenging at all.

I'm really hoping that if Alduin has a mortal servant villain type person, it won't be a god damned High Elf.

I know I'm being nitpicky, but it was the Sixth House, not the Fifth.

I really enjoyed Dagoth Ur. I really enjoyed Mankar Camoran. Honestly, they're two of my favorite video game villains. I'm not really sure what to expect from Skyrim as far as villains go, though. I don't really see "dragons" as in that 'main villain' category like Dagoth Ur and Mankar Camoran. They're the equivalent of the Ash Ghouls/Vampires or Mythic Dawn agents. Alduin seems like he'll most likely be more like Dagon in Oblivion (though, hopefully, with more dialogue. Come to think of it, did Mehrunes Dagon say anything in the entire game? I don't think he did. That's a shame.)

If there's not some non-dragon villain prevalent, I'm hoping Alduin will get some nice dialogue going. He's had some nice things to say in the Seven Fights of Aldudagga.


I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but to be honest, there's no race more lore-friendly to be a servant of Alduin than an Altmer.

I know what you mean, I killed Camoran in about five seconds on my first playthrough. :/

There will definitely be some sort of dragon cult who you have to fight against, so there should be no worries about not having a "human" element to the dragons to relate to. Come on guys, it's a Dragon Cult is pretty much screaming to be included.

I'm guessing there will be a warrior (perhaps a rival Dragonborn) you'll have to kill before confronting Alduin. According to Goldbrand's description in Tamrielic Lore, it was rumored to have been forged by ancient dragons of the north for a great knight sworn to protect them. Hm... foreshadowing?

http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Goldbrand

I'm still confident, there will be a non-dragon antagonist. Dragon cult, a dragon guardian or something like that.

I am hoping they do not come off as being outright malicious, so much as absolutely convinced that their path...is the correct one. No anger, no malice, simply duty carried forth through divine sanction from Alduin. That they are carrying out the will of Alduin, which we unfortunately happen to be in the way of.

I'm hoping that the dragon's will be part of complex political situation you get dumped in where you end up deciding whether Skyrim stays part of the empire or not. Granted, considering how much work they've put into the dragons, I'm sure they'll be the best villains so far.

Exactly, and it's because Saren was actively antagonistic; killing people you cared about and also conversing with you, in person, several times. It helps that you fight him twice, too.




Ah, that's a pretty significant mistake actually, I fixed it. Thanks!

Part of issue I had with Oblivion's villains wasn't just their lack of interaction with the player (which was still annoying, but at least Camoran made up for it with his lengthy speech in Paradise), but their simplistic designs. Dagoth Ur's appearance matched his reputation, but Camoran and Mannimarco just looked generic. The modding community spiced them up considerably.

Compare the vanilla versions, http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/0/0f/MankarCamoran.png and http://www.niburuarchief.nl/mick/img/ScreenShot19.jpg, to the most popular modded versions, http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2159&d=1306605682 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/9954-1190392003.jpg.

I simply loved how Dagoth Ur was presented in Morrowind, thus making him my favorite Video Game villan of all time

That's exactly what I was thinking. It would be a cool convention breaker to have The Knight In Shining Armour cliche' turned around so that one is not only evil, but a Scion of the Creatures he's usually killing in other folklore/mythology.

My favoritee villians in oblivion were the deadra. I loved killing all the oblivion citizens then climbibg there tower and removing there sigil stone. In my opinion they were way better then the mystic dawn. And i would consider them mq enemies just not final boss enemies.

That would be ironic...killing dragons with a sword meant to protect dragons. I almost have a hunch it'll be in the game as it was in Morrowind and Oblivion.

having Goldbrand in the hands of a Dragon Knight of some kind would be a pretty cool addition to the main quest. that way you teach Alduin the meaning of irony, by stabbing him in the brain with a golden sword forged by dragons to protect dragons. Dragon Knight should be able to use Shouts to make the battle with him very interesting.

I agree, the 6th House in Morrowind was way creepy. The Mythinc Dawn was just "meh". From what we have seen of dragons, I think they will be great. I mean, they can pick random people up and drop them, swooping in out of the blue!

I'm actually still hoping that Alduin won't be the badguy at all... probably won't happen but it sure would be a massive plottwist.

From one perspective he is a good guy. Who knows what would happen if Alduin wasn't able to eat Nirn. Kinda like we don't know what would happen if suddenly earth got stuck in the Fall season. Us as Dragonborn could very well be the badguy, kinda like how CoC could be looked at as a bad guy for letting Martin break the Covanant with the Divines - thus freeing Alduin from his agreement to protect the empire.

The elves also have that crazy complex of theirs where they think if Nirn is distroyed they'll be able to reclaim their possitions as immortals.