3 Elements

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:41 pm

Ok i've been searching and i can't find any threads that talk about this so here goes...

I noticed that there are three main elements in oblivion, fire, ice and shock. Now a little research shows that there was an idea for an air atronach which seems to have been dismissed during Daggerfalls development, however there are certain things which i would like lore answers to:

What happened to the iron atronachs, made by the Lliac bay mages?
Didn't the dunmer lady in SI study and make flesh atronachs, if so how does this explain their prescence in daggerfall?
I've been reading some hints in the UESP on earth atronachs and water atronachs, is any of this true?
Why is it the TES seems to have a focus on these three natural elements rather than the more common system of earth, air, fire, water, shock?
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marie breen
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:14 pm

Game mechanics. 'Nuff said.
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Dan Wright
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:36 pm

Game mechanics. 'Nuff said.



What do you mean?
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Hannah Barnard
 
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Post » Sun May 29, 2011 1:58 am

the "main elements" you refer to. according to lore, Tamriel uses the standard medieval elements of Fire, Water, Earth and Air (except for the Ayleids, who substituted Light for fire)

the dissaperance of flesh/earth/iron/etc atronaches is simply a design choice on the part of bethesda. if i remember corectly the atronaches feature in MW/OB are more daedra, while those previously mentioned are crafted by mages.

oblivion seems to focus on shock, ice, and fire because they are easiest to depict. how would anyone cast a spell to hurt people with earth or air? an air atronach, likewise, doesnt make much sense (i suppose the storm atronarch in MW counts though...)
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Dean Ashcroft
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:43 pm

I'd wish they'd bring back poison <_<
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Jack
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:47 pm

the "main elements" you refer to. according to lore, Tamriel uses the standard medieval elements of Fire, Water, Earth and Air (except for the Ayleids, who substituted Light for fire)

the dissaperance of flesh/earth/iron/etc atronaches is simply a design choice on the part of bethesda. if i remember corectly the atronaches feature in MW/OB are more daedra, while those previously mentioned are crafted by mages.

oblivion seems to focus on shock, ice, and fire because they are easiest to depict. how would anyone cast a spell to hurt people with earth or air? an air atronach, likewise, doesnt make much sense (i suppose the storm atronarch in MW counts though...)


I'm sure they cold find a way, like flinging shunks of earth or blowing gusts of wind would do the trick.
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Tina Tupou
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:55 pm

neither of those are particularly cool effects. wind in particular would be very hard to actually depict, and throwing dirt isnt very magical (or dangerous). i dont think that the ingame spells have to reflect an arbitrary division of 'elements'
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Maddy Paul
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:58 pm

the more common system of earth, air, fire, water, shock?

And Heart! Captain Planet!

maybe the dev's felt that the 'common system' was disgustingly cliche and decided to ditch the whole 'elements' thing. :shrug:
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:43 pm

the "main elements" you refer to. according to lore, Tamriel uses the standard medieval elements of Fire, Water, Earth and Air (except for the Ayleids, who substituted Light for fire)

the dissaperance of flesh/earth/iron/etc atronaches is simply a design choice on the part of bethesda. if i remember corectly the atronaches feature in MW/OB are more daedra, while those previously mentioned are crafted by mages.

oblivion seems to focus on shock, ice, and fire because they are easiest to depict. how would anyone cast a spell to hurt people with earth or air? an air atronach, likewise, doesnt make much sense (i suppose the storm atronarch in MW counts though...)


The DF atronaches are more or less golems, while the MW and OB atronaches are Daedra.
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ruCkii
 
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Post » Sun May 29, 2011 12:36 am

Well nobody seems to have answered yet how flesh atronachs exist during daggerfall and why mages stopped building golems, i am referring to oblivion in this case.
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:41 pm

Gameplay/design. Both creatures were filling the same nice and looked allot like each other. At the same time it leaves the AI to the Dwemer and their most fanatical students while everybody else goes the more efficient way.
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mishionary
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:45 pm

The power is yours!
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Taylor Thompson
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:54 pm

Well nobody seems to have answered yet how flesh atronachs exist during daggerfall and why mages stopped building golems, i am referring to oblivion in this case.


Yeah they did. One guy said "Game mechanics. 'Nuff said."

...
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Niisha
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:57 pm

oblivion seems to focus on shock, ice, and fire because they are easiest to depict. how would anyone cast a spell to hurt people with earth or air? an air atronach, likewise, doesnt make much sense (i suppose the storm atronarch in MW counts though...)


Throwing rocks hurts a lot, so maybe an earth-based damage spell could be creating a piece of rock and shooting it at someone. As for air, it's harder to make a direct damage spell with it, but you could have a strong gust of wind to knock them down or blow objects into them or something.

And I don't see how an air atronach would make any less sense than a flame atronach or storm atronach.

maybe the dev's felt that the 'common system' was disgustingly cliche and decided to ditch the whole 'elements' thing.


Yes, because taking one element off the list and replacing air with lightning (and in many games, lightning is stuck together with air anyway, probably using the logic that lightning comes from the sky and is therefore related to air or something.) makes it completely original.

And if Bethesda was trying to avoid things that are "disgustingly cliche", there wouldn't be elves in the game.
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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:15 pm

Yes, because taking one element off the list and replacing air with lightning (and in many games, lightning is stuck together with air anyway, probably using the logic that lightning comes from the sky and is therefore related to air or something.) makes it completely original.

And if Bethesda was trying to avoid things that are "disgustingly cliche", there wouldn't be elves in the game.

:lol: Touche.

Still, those are the sorts of things that hurt - electricity, fire, and extreme cold. Wind and dirt, as already mentioned, just aren't that impressive unless used on a large scale. Or, you could interpret "poison" as earth damage. :shrug:
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Melanie
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:25 pm

Earth doesn't really have to be just rocks; it could be in the form of anything dealing with nature graphic, like Shamans "Earth Shock" from WoW which has green/leafy effect, or Entangle in the Baldur's Gate games

Besides, if air and earth were represented in other WRPGs and JRPGs decently, I don't see why they could be represent that well in the Elder Scrolls games either.
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Brandi Norton
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:26 pm

Earth and Air are Mundane elements. Lightning, Fire, and Ice (aside from providing yet another example of the Mage/Warrior/Thief triune, respectively) are divisions of Aetherial energy. Fire and Ice seem obvious as the same destructive energy on opposite ends of the proverbial scale. Lightning is different and I can't easily justify it, but it being the part of the destructive triune that plays the Mage, it will always be... special.
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:27 pm

Earth and Air are Mundane elements. Lightning, Fire, and Ice (aside from providing yet another example of the Mage/Warrior/Thief triune, respectively) are divisions of Aetherial energy. Fire and Ice seem obvious as the same destructive energy on opposite ends of the proverbial scale. Lightning is different and I can't easily justify it, but it being the part of the destructive triune that plays the Mage, it will always be... special.


Kindly provide a source for this please.
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Craig Martin
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 11:58 pm

Earth and Air are Mundane elements. Lightning, Fire, and Ice (aside from providing yet another example of the Mage/Warrior/Thief triune, respectively) are divisions of Aetherial energy. Fire and Ice seem obvious as the same destructive energy on opposite ends of the proverbial scale. Lightning is different and I can't easily justify it, but it being the part of the destructive triune that plays the Mage, it will always be... special.

So where does poison and magic fit into this? The only time poison wasn't put in was in OB, and what would magic be?
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Sun May 29, 2011 2:04 am

Yeah they did. One guy said "Game mechanics. 'Nuff said."

...


What does game mechanics have to do with the disappearance of golems and the existance of flesh atronachs before their discovery?
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Kelly James
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:52 pm

What does game mechanics have to do with the disappearance of golems and the existance of flesh atronachs before their discovery?


Um...everything???
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Philip Lyon
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Um...everything???


Ok please explain this super simply, once again:

1. How do flesh atronachs exist before their discovery/creation?
2. What happened to the golems of daggefall and why have mages stopped building them?

And please if you are going to say game mechanics explain it super simply, what is it in game mechanics that is preventing that, and what does game mechanics have to do with the existence of flesh atronachs? (DO NOT SAY EVERYTHING, EXPLAIN!!!!!!!)
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Robert Jackson
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:53 am

You say that the designers put flesh atronachs in Daggerfall without explanation. Then the only explanation is that they put them in just because.

You say there isn't an explanation for the change of elements throughout the TES series. Then the only explanation is that they changed them just because.
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Stephanie Valentine
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 11:09 pm

So no chance of a lore based answer? Not even something remotely possible like a dragon-break?
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Michelle Serenity Boss
 
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Post » Sun May 29, 2011 2:01 am

So no chance of a lore based answer? Not even something remotely possible like a dragon-break?

I wouldn't wager to classify Dragon Breaks under 'remotely possible'.
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maria Dwyer
 
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