I know, you may not think it's such a strange idea since Athis is among them and there's been an elven harbinger before. But it still is too crazy.

The very foundations of the Companions are built on the ancient enmity between man and mer.

It's like... I don't know, a vegan joining a barbecue party.

What do you think?

It's viable.

"Even an Elf can be born with the heart of a Nord".

I never knew there was an elven harbinger (source?)

I don't like the idea, and it doesn't make sense, but neither does being a werewolf a perk and not a curse. I guess the devs wanted to make it clear that people playing elves were open to join the companions also ... and a Nord in the Mages College, etc. It's like those times in RL when political correctness makes us do stupid things, the devs had to ignore common sense to make the game open for everyone to do anything, catering to the lowest denominator.

Well, that's what I think about it anyway. Thanks for asking.

I think it'd be weird. Farkas even dismisses magic, relegating it only to elves. "Leave that fancy stuff to the elves."

I can't see it at all. Especially an Altmer. Companions are a very Nordic thing.

Who said that?

Skjor said it. Who also got it from the book "Great Harbingers". It's found in the Companions Quarters somewhere.

For Leburns, the Elven Harbinger is also mentioned in the book.

Under 'Henantier the Outsider'.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Great_Harbingers

The Companions had enmity with only the Falmer not really any of the other Elven races even the Dwemer.

Bah, you beat me to it.

Yeah, I don't find it that hard to believe after reading that, as well as having that Dark Elf guy in the current Companions.

I mean, the current inner circle's embracing lycanthropy, and in the past the Companions were anything but honorable at times.

After reading that, my I feel my stance is solidified. It seems there was quite a level of discrimination towards elves during that time. Some of the Companions even left once he was named Harbinger. Do you think he held Wuuthrad...?

"Henantier the Outsider: The first elven Harbinger. Like Cirroc before him, he was initially subject to ridicule when arriving at Jorrvaskr, for this was the time (near the closing of the first era) when elves were not permitted to be full Companions, and few were even allowed to see the inside of the hall. Henantier was humble in the daylight hours, performing any task asked of him. At night, he trained fiercely in the outside yard, allowing himself only minutes of sleep before resuming his servant duties the next day. So he toiled through several Harbingers, never resting, never complaining, and always keeping his mind and body sharp. Given his long life, he came to be trusted by the new Companions as the one who them learn [sic] the ways of honor.

When one such pupil had aged into an old man and become Harbinger himself, Henantier was the one at his deathbed. With all Companions assembled, he named Henantier as his successor, saying "even an elf can be born with the heart of a Nord sometimes." There were some number of Companions who laid down their weapons that day, but those who remained knew the truth of honor, and it is their legacy we continue to bear."


Looks like even when Henantier became Harbinger it was controversial. It was those that remained with the Companions that wrote it as an honorable thing...

The only thing I don't like about it is that you're not really given a hard time for joining the Companions as an elf, which accounts for 90% of everything in the game when it comes to race.

I'm gonna sound like an ass, but that just comes off as laziness on the part of the developers.

Why would an elf even be in Skyrim if you're so sensitive about Nordiness? Go home, milk drinker!

No. A lot of Dwemer were hunted too. The Nords waged war on them during the early First-era[probably hunting for Falmer] Source: Aetherium Wars. But of course, the Nords had very little success, due to the Dwemer's near impenetrable defenses.

And all the sources about the 500, talk about killing elves. Falmer are never specified.

Just another note about Henantier the Outsider, he did live with the Companions for several generations before being made Harbringer. I mean think about it, would any old and ancient organization like the Companions just let anyone, let alone an elf, just walk into the place and a week later be the Harbringer? That would be the most insane thing imaginable.
...
...
Oh, wait a minute ...

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/22650/?

I don't see anything wrong with it. Nords have moved on with that "kill every elf" thing. Most of them, anyway.

Dang. Once again the players fix the game.

That mod looks like it's still a WIP, but it's definitely worth following.

Yeah, for once I have to agree with Hevnoraak. Or I'm at least curious about our esteemed Dovah's reasoning. Most sources say the Nords and Dwemer fought since day one, and Aetherium Wars adds to that.

Nords don't always hold a grudge though. Despite wars previously with Orcs and Khajiit, they still managed to swallow their pride and ally with them during the Battle of Red Mountain. Granted they still lost but the fact they were willing to ally with races they viewed as bitter enemies once shows that even the Companions, who I see more as upholding Nordic virtues(strengthening yourself, protect Skyrim and any that call it home, get horribly drunk and not complain about it the next day), should be able to let in anyone. Harbinger? Well that's going to require some really outrageous circumstances. Like say if said elf outlived several generations of companions, or if said elf was dragonborn.

Nords in general seem to follow anyone blindly if they prove they can dragonshout. It could mudcrab and if it can dragonshout, they'd put it on a pedastal.

The Aetherium wars was under king Gellir of the Nordic Empire which was way way after the return and the companions had nothing to do with it.

The companions probably thought that the Falmer were the only elves at the time

"Many of Skyrim's Nords harbor a bitter resentment of all elvenkind, whom they've battled with throughout history."

Loading screen.

That's true. But I think a group's history and origins are a relevant factor when you consider joining them.

I'm not sure what state the full version of the mod is in, but the "requirements only" version is what I use and it works fine. Basically all it does is make it more difficult to advance through the main faction questline, by requiring that you do more radiant quests, reach specified levels in offensive/defensive combat skills, and wait a specified period of time at each stage of advancement before the next stage becomes available. And all of that is configurable, so you can tweak it to allow slower or quicker advancement at each stage of the main questline, or all of them, or none of them. The first time I used it I left it at the default settings - I went straight to Whiterun via Riverwood after leaving Helgen and joined the Companions almost immediately, and did very little except their stuff until I finished their questline. I was around level 50 before I got to the end of it.

That doesn't change the fact that the sources all say the wars with Dwemer had been going on for centuries, even The Aetherium Wars says that. They may not have encountered them much prior to their invasion of Resdayn, though.

However, this is never as absolute as people want to believe. Nords haven't always fought with elves, sometimes allying with them, sometimes living side by side. As I keep saying, they're meritocratic. If you show honor, valor and skill in battle, they accept you almost as one of their own. And like I said, if that isn't enough, an elf has no business in Skyrim so your PC being there doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't know why my previous post is being ignored here.

If by alliances you mean Molag Bal's invasion, I doubt that the Argonians cooperating with the Dunmer hated the latter any less than before. It was a matter of greater need.

If you consider only historical origins, an Elf joining the Companions is about as insane as a person of Native American descent joining the US Military.

Which?

I mean also the alliance with the orcs against the Dwemer/ Chimer and their alliance with Direnni against the Alessian Order in the Battle of Glenumbria Moors- with Nord forces led by Hoag Merkiller.

Because nobody's ever done that, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker?