@Merari Who said there's no invisibility or chameleon?

Tesco also sells millions of mechanically reclaimed meat + starch hotdogs in buns made of sugar and starch.
Wich was kind of my point.

And have Tesco won food awards for there quality? Are they critically acclaimed? Beths games are.

@Arwen my concern if there is no stamina lose while running how will we ever sprint(assuming sprint is based on stamina)? I want regen while running so sprint is like all the other games that sprint is in.

They would be if there was a peoples choice award.
Just as the people choose to award big brother and the kardashians.

The quote is still very valid. "People can be trained to prefer the other kind"
Meaning, people can be trained to disregard quality and actually favour crap.

Prime example of the gaming industry: Fable. Didnt start out that well, what with the tiny linear maps consisting of a narrow path and the utterly broken morality system and character customisation. Went downhill from there instead of picking up.

Dragon age. hah.

People can be programmed to prefer trash and that is what I feel often happens on this forum.
"Make elder scrolls more restrictive. Its silly we have all these options. I can choose to be a god and find it boring, and I dont know how to play any other way but powergaming so make it that powergaming doesnt work."

Argh. Argh. Argh.

So that is a no.

Bethesda has reached very high level of successes. Their games sell millions and win dozens of awards. Ob has metacritic score at 94 and FO3 is not far behind. Again why would they change direction?

Oh yes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6h4zLC5U8 is my hero! :nod:

I like running in game without a fatigue drop. I just started playing Morrowind a couple of weeks ago. Very frustrating not being able to run everywhere and constantly having to keep an eye on the fatigue-o-meter, after playing Oblivion. I loved being able to eventually run like the wind (in Oblivion) without ever getting tired.

But that's just me and my personal preferences.

That's why I think athletics should be implemented in other ways since it's not a skill. Different characters and creatures should have differing athletic abilities. Without it, everyone is on the same level. <_<

You know in real life alot of people can run for miles and miles. I've done a 20km run with out stopping yet can't spirit 100 feet without nearly killing my self. Skyrims way of doing it will be just fine, or at least better then then Morriwind and Oblivion.

1) Because there is still a market among loyal fans.

2) Because people can get crap everywhere and when crap is abundant you do not get many repeat customers.

Now quit with your meaningless figures and numbers and pretending to dont know what I am talking about.
You know perfectly well.
Some people are very sad to see the last know how of what a good hotdog is get turned over to quick buck- circus grade meat in a bun that never saw wheat.
Most people of course will not be, as they prefer crap. Well, there is plenty of crap already out there so quit trying to remove all quality from TES simply because you dont understand what a quality product is.

Niche markets and loyal, repeat customers lyrical enough to go on and on to their friends about it is just what a company needs in this time of reccesion. Sound long term business.
Much more so than grab a buck, sell some crap.

Sorry, but being penalized in morrowind for moving around the world at a reasonable pace was super annoying. "your objective is 5 miles that-a-way!" running running running running JUMPED BY BANDITS! You can't land a single god damned hit because your fatigue is depleted and you don't got no potions! I didn't miss that feature in oblivion, not at all.

I don't think my numbers are meaningless to Bethesda. Millions of people played OB, then Millions more played FO3. Both games were praised critically they were considered high quality.

A sound long term business plan would be to keep doing what is making them millions and winning them awards. Financial and Artistic success, having one is hard to come by, but having both is impressive, Beth knows what there doing.

I am a loyal long term customer and I go on and on about SR and so do many others. The games are not moving in the direction you want, but they are moving in the direction I want so perhaps they should listen to me and not you? Are individual opinions don't matters, but the numbers do. Clearly the people who don't like how TES is going is far out numbered by those who do.

The only thing missing from Morrowind was mounts. If those are in Skyrim then it's fixed. I really hope we can't constantly run as fast as a horse, and jump like a kangaroo a whole day.

It the horses who i feel sorry.

Um then walk?

It's really not that hard just move the control stick slightly forward instead of all the way forward.

Problem solved

/thread

Again you completely bypass my point so I will make it once again.

"Its just that people can be persuaded to prefer the other kind"

Sound business strategy, in the end, is not making crap. Its making a first time customer a repeat customer.
Since you have no interest in actually adressing what I am saying, I shall end our conversation here.

While I appreciate and laud your wonderful rant, I'm not quite clear on the point re: this thread.

Are you arguing, in the midst of that superb hyperbole, that having the realistic element of actually becoming fatigued when you run is a bad thing? Or that the clamoring need to be able to run forever and sprint whenever you want on top of that is a bad thing?

Personally, I'd think that the "Tesco hotdog" version of the game is the latter rather than the former, but with your recurring theme of "stop restricting," I would tend to think that your view is that being able to run forever with no consequences is the "choice meat butchers finest dog" and becoming fatigued by doing things that are fatiguing is the "Tesco hotdog."

Seems sort of backwards to me, to be honest, but again, I can't be sure that that's even what you meant.

Hah! touche.

It is not so much about this topic specifically as it is about the impression I have of seeing a topic wanting to remove/ restrict something pop up every day.
In actual fact my preferred fatigue system is Daggerfall style, where you need to rest to replenish. Same goes for magicka, Im not a fan of auto fill up.
In Daggerfall I slept every night. Ate a meal at an inn too, after getting some training, maybe a weekly visit to a bank.
I felt that tied me into the world, made me more a real part of it. As opposed to Morrowind and certainly Oblivion where things were much more 'just for me'. I prefer the Daggerfall style as it is better roleplaying than 'wait an hour, back in tip-top shape'

I was indeed slightly ranting about a phenomenon that I described in my original post.
I truly sometimes feel that because of all the generic, done in 15 hours, boring after three playthroughs games people play they get utterly confused when presented with what a game is supposed to be, such as Morrowind, and then go: 'this cant be right! It doesnt taste of Tesco dogs!' "why can I do all this? Why wont the game tell me I cant? Gimp it!'
Wich might be pessimistic and sullen but it does portray how I actually feel at times when on this forum.

Ability to play on after the main quest removed, sheesh.

For me, when I first played Morrowind I felt as if I had finally found a game made by people who knew what it was to like to game, a game made by gamers out to get me a fantastic gaming experience. No one in my circle knew it and I described it to them as such. 'Imagine a game made by people who like games, instead of people who like money."
The difference between a developer carefully deciding what path you should take to that cave versus the ability to jump/ fly there however you fancied.
The spell system wich let me tweak each and every NPC variable. It was like I was given the tools of the world I was in.
It was my game. It wasnt how the developer wanted me to experience it, it was my world.

That is my delectable hotdog.

The Tesco dog only passable with mustard is any Bioware game, or (parts of) Oblivion.

Great - that means that I can agree with your rant entirely, rather than with reservations.

Some "restrictions" make sense, not as a way of directing a character to the optimal outcome, but simply as a representation of some measure of reality. I have no problem with those (within reasonable limits) and in fact welcome them (at least up until the point that they become drudgery). Other "restrictions" though seem to be there solely to prevent players with short attention spans and/or little or no self-control from ruining their own game, and I agree - I see all too many of them proposed here and it saddens and frustrates me when I do.

Doubly frustrating the number of people I see who oppose the former and support the latter. That just makes no sense at all to me.

Eh... if I was to start listing all the things that people do that make no sense to me, I'd be here all night.......

Anyway - :foodndrink: Nice rant

I love how many market anolysts, publicity specialists, and economists we have on these forums.

If we wanted to play pretend we could do it without buying the game.

For me (and I am definitely not alone) speed of movement is one of most important character traits in all TES games, and maybe even in all games. Big fan of moving very fast. Hate to crawl slowly. But there is also other thing I hate in games: being spoon-fed.

My solution on stamina drain when running.

1. Yes, you can't run constantly by default with new character. Your stamina will drain.
2. Khajiti, Bosmers and Redguards should have it easier than others.
3. During your Athletics skill development, your stamina drain will weaken.
4. At about 40-50 Athletics, you can get a perk which eliminates stamina drain during running completely. This perk should also provide some other advantage, because that first effect is not very impressive, especially considering other ways to remove stamina drain.
5. At 100 Athletics if you did NOT get that perk which eliminates stamina drain, you still will have some very minor stamina drain when running. Or maybe not, but only at 100.
6. Constant effect Restore Stamina enchant should be possible to obtain. Not easy, but possible.

There you go. If you like "realistic" slow movement with straining effect — you got it. If you want to run like crazy — you can do it, not so hard to attain, but you are either: spending one perk; train in not very important skill up to maximum; spend one equipment slot on enchant. Your choice.

That sounds about right to me, but wasn't Athletics removed as a skill?
I wonder if that means that run speed has changed to a perk or if there's really going to be a standard run speed for all characters.
THAT'LL get modded out fast. I enjoy being faster at the end of the game than the beginning.

Agreed, it's ridiculous to be able to run forever.

Also, I think stamina and your gear will choose how fast you are. Stamina just alittle bit, but still adding some more speed in addition to a larger stamina pool, while armor weights you down. So a fast ranger character would be a chap with a lot of stamina and light armor.

Thats one thing I hope they never get rid of.

I never use fast travel so like to run around everywhere.
It's one thing I hated about Morrowind. Movement was painfully slow in that game which forced me to cheat and use the super potion exploit to get round faster.

Oblivion got it right. I am not forced to fast travel everywhere because movement speed is just right.

I hope that the running-stamina-depletion is not put in, I mean this is going to be a game with dragons, magic, many-slices-kills with swords which I would have thought were/are sharp, glitches no doubt in the first few days/weeks. I think this realism *stuff* should just go elsewhere. Maybe If you want realism you should take up sword and shield and travel round the countryside with your (presumably) limited 'fatigue', your having to eat to keep fatigue at bay and your limited carrying capacity as well as swords which should be able to kill someone in one thrust. It has all been done before by people long ago before cars and nearly everything we have now (if you can imagine that).

But it has to be said that you won't have magic or potions or magical potions or enchantments for your sword/armour, you will have to maintain your own armour/sword (unless you find a blacksmith) and yes that will take more than a second to do.
Amongst all this (unless you are quite strange relative to this day and age) the one main thing that will be missing is fun/enjoyment. Fun/enjoyment is what, ultimately, this game will be aiming to provide you with with realism in tow, being applied sparingliy.

However if you feel it is not real enough then see above and get out there, and I look forward to hearing about you on the news. Additionally, for UK 'realists', the closest thing to an ogre you will get is an overgrown C,H,A,V.

Edit: I'm not calling anyone a C,H,A,V so I don't see why that was censored, unless there is a hidden meaning that I'm missing.