[Paul Rice]

Been lucky, as I could repair my disk by 'disabling' the bad sectors and chkdisk'ing the garbage away. But I'll do backups 'every hour' now, as I had to learn: if it's crashed once, it will crash again.

Nothing svcks more than having to learn this lesson the hard way. Backups backups backups! I just made another of my own again last night after my system started throwing around random BSODs that appear linked to the DVD-ROM drive. Could also be a flaky drive controller though, and the last time I ran into that years ago it wiped out the whole system when it went bonkers before actually dying.

[Kayleigh Williams]

2.) The city has no real protection towards the mountain; the castle has none at all towards the mountain. Perhaps it would help to add another
tier on top of the current highest one?

That will be done. The palace will sit on same kind of platforms like the temple, so it will be normally impossible to enter it from the hill side. Besides that, somebodies skyship will reach every place , as magic does, and gods do. It's as Iliana already wrote: it's more the look, not the real functionality.

For the houses my intention was exactly the other way around. 'Elegant bones of ivory-colored stone' is not lowerclass. Most dome types are difficult to build, so nothing for the poor.

I've used the Leyawiin houses as placeholder for the city layout. They are at least 50% bigger than yours. Even the LC houses are as big as your houses. That the reason why city grew.

The houses I put in now are just to show up the different models, nothing fix. But your streets are much to narrow for me. Look at the Bethesda cities. It's more realistic your way, yes, but it gives a feeling of 'little town', not 'big city'. That's good for the LC region, but not for UC. The UC houses should have gardens or storage room around them.

I'm currently building a tile set for the tempel pagoda and parts of the palace, so no time for thinking about domes, sorry.

[Deon Knight]

How about some really steep cliffs and hard to traverse landscape on that side of the city?

[N3T4]

Would you mind if I created the city layout of Rimmen? So you could work on other things.

Here is what I was thinking of the layout, it seems to follow lore:

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/acwarex/scan0001.jpg

The image is just an eyes view layout, I rushed it quite a bit so it is not very neat nor are the proportions quite accurate.

It would be hard to explain how it would actually look in-game but it would look a bit rougher then this:

http://yeschinatour.com/static/photologue/photos/cache/ancient-chinese-architecture-02_leading.jpg

I really hope you'd let me do this.

[Zach Hunter]

@warex: I've done a layout some time before: click http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenConcept4.jpg. Just forget to post it, sorry.

But this round chinese door and the roof style on the photo is great. I'll do a concept later on, this roofs can be combined with domes and ivory stone pillars quite easy. The door style would perfectly match a dome roof. And it matches mr_siika's round windows, too.

Did a nice gate house yesterday, actually for the palace. Then remembered the 'gate hole' in the south wall, and doubled the size of the mesh. Now it matches into there, as if I had done it for this hole. Not yet finished, needs some more wooden details below the roof, but I can steal that quickly from cloudruler.

Wondering if I can do something like http://yeschinatour.com/static/photologue/photos/cache/1d-bj-01-04_tourlead.jpg for the palace 'in exchange'. Inspiring website, warex, thanks again for the link .

[[ becca ]]

Besides that, somebodies skyship will reach every place , as magic does, and gods do. It's as Iliana already wrote: it's more the look, not the real functionality.

I don't know the context of this saying. Anyway. Successful mods put a lot of thought in the design of the (new) world around the player. A city has to feel authentic AND look good, otherwise the modder has missed the point. Rimmen has seen a lot of fighting in the past, the city should reflect that.

For the houses my intention was exactly the other way around. 'Elegant bones of ivory-colored stone' is not lowerclass. Most dome types are difficult to build, so nothing for the poor.
I've used the Leyawiin houses as placeholder for the city layout. They are at least 50% bigger than yours. Even the LC houses are as big as your houses. That the reason why city grew.

The "elegant bones of ivory colored stone" are not directly linked to domes. In fact, when saying "bones", the writer might as well be talking about the ground the city is built on (thinking about it, it's rather likely he did). Domes may not be the easiest thing to build, but domes (in houses) are commonly associated with "oriental" architecture. Oriental influences come from the Khajiit, and since most poor people in Rimmen seem to be drug-addicted Khajiit, their houses could have oriental influences and thus domes.
You are right, the LC houses are very big. Again, it is a question of realism. I think realism is essential to make a mod "stand out", and big lower class houses do not really help with that

But your streets are much to narrow for me. Look at the Bethesda cities. It's more realistic your way, yes, but it gives a feeling of 'little town', not 'big city'. That's good for the LC region, but not for UC. The UC houses should have gardens or storage room around them.

Let's agree to disagree on this. Bethesda made most streets too big, that's why I like Skingrad best - the streets are much more realistic there. And Skingrad does not look smaller than Anvil, for example. Smaller streets make the city feel bigger. In my opinion at least.

I'm currently building a tile set for the tempel pagoda and parts of the palace, so no time for thinking about domes, sorry.

I would help you with that, but the next three weeks will be very busy for me. After that I can help you design lower class houses. If you can wait that long, of course.

@warex: I've done a layout some time before: click http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenConcept4.jpg. Just forget to post it, sorry.

Actually warex's layout has some good points. Moving the UC houses towards the temple/castle is a very good idea. I'm not sure what the working district is, but if it contains the furnace, I'd move the working district away from the UC district. The UC district should contain at least twice as many (16+) houses as planned.

Auryga, I hope you do not feel offended by anything I said. I put a lot of thought and work into the upper class houses, I'd go so far as to say the design is one of those I'm most proud of.
This means, that I'd like to see them used in a high quality mod, otherwise they look out of place. I have no intention of telling you what you must do, but believe me, I have some experience and I can tell if a mod as a high visual quality or not.

[Monika Krzyzak]

3.) The houses seem too far apart, in both, the upper- and lower class district. Try to create "streets" by placing houses closer to each other, it makes
a city more realistic. Like this: http://img121.imageshack.us/i/rm01.jpg/http://img63.imageshack.us/i/rm02.jpg/
Apart from that the city looks good. A bit big perhaps, but the canols look nice.

I like that design, it feels very natural with the narrow canols and streets. Actually the layout kind of reminds me of Kampen, an old medieval town with canols not far from where I live.

The red-ochre plaster does really suit the upper houses.

It looks like its going to be quite a large town.

The houses I put in now are just to show up the different models, nothing fix. But your streets are much to narrow for me. Look at the Bethesda cities. It's more realistic your way, yes, but it gives a feeling of 'little town', not 'big city'. That's good for the LC region, but not for UC. The UC houses should have gardens or storage room around them.

It will seem bigger when you are walking around. A crowded maze of buildings does feel just as large. In Mr Siika's screenshot if you removed the building at the end of the middle row you could have a nice little square, perhaps with a well or garden in the centre where NPCs can gather.

[DeeD]

Auryga, I hope you do not feel offended by anything I said. I put a lot of thought and work into the upper class houses, I'd go so far as to say the design is one of those I'm most proud of.
This means, that I'd like to see them used in a high quality mod, otherwise they look out of place. I have no intention of telling you what you must do, but believe me, I have some experience and I can tell if a mod as a high visual quality or not.

I'm not offended, for sure. Quite the contrary, I like to discuss this things especially when we don't agree, as it gives me another point of view. I think, I have the same high demands on this mod, but I'm still more the Akaviri, and not so good in Elsweyr styles. I don't want to do new UC houses, if I would try to do something in your quality, it would last a year, maybe.

What about the other idea I had earlier: something like http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenDomeConcept.jpg as a form of 'wayshrines' or for statues, cluttered around in the city? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/25023-3-1244559485.jpg would match that perfectly.

And for your point about the lower class houses, there is something else in the text I hadn't seen before:

They left the plaza, crossing a canol on a footbridge and thence down a narrow street where gentrly chiming bells were depended between the flat roofs of the buildings and viridian moths flittered in the shadows. the addicts were even thicker here, a few watching them and holding out their hands for money; but most were shivering, lost in their visions.

Ain't that houses from Orcrest? They would match in size and style much more than mine.

I have no problem to wait for you. To be honest I would prefer, if you could take over the city part at all, layout and whatever is missing. This pagoda and palace thing is what I like to do most, and it's quite hard enough .

[Gen Daley]

As said, I can't do much modelling in the next three weeks, after that - why not. I think you're idea with the wayshrines is a very good one, we could even use a similar, more detailed mesh for spanning road crossings etc.
We desperately need domes


I can take care of the layout as well, if you want, but I'd like to see warex try come up with something.
@warex: if you want, create some more layouts. Take the shape of the city walls, and the rest is up to you. If you need special canol meshes, I'll create them later.
We could vote when the layouts are ready.

I saw some great pics today, maybe even a source of inspiration for you, Auryga. Maybe it's the architecture of the Bhutan monastery-castles, we're looking for in Rimmen:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Taktshang.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/3/30/Thimpu_Dzong_innen.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Thimpu_Trashi_Chhoe_Dzong_innen.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Thimpu_Trashi_Chhoe_Dzong_aussen.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/0/05/Punakha_dzong.JPG

more info http://www.raonline.ch/pages/bt/visin/bt_dzongpic01.html.

[Ebou Suso]

I am glad I could be of help, however it wasn't exactly the architecture I had wanted to point out. I meant more of the walls, in many ancient cities in China (since akaviri's architecture is similar) they would separate districts occasionally shops and sometimes the larger housing (perhaps the guilds buildings) with these small walls that are half the size of the outside walls. This would bring a very interesting and realistic visual to the city, which would also create an easy way to separate districts without it looking out of place. This isn't a brilliant example but it will do look at the Forbidden City's layout.

http://www.kinabaloo.com/fc43667.gif

See how the districts are separated by walls as well as some of the larger buildings and even some smaller buildings.

I wouldn't mind helping out with building, creating or detailing the city layout, however I agree with mr_silka's view of how the cities layout should be, many of the Oblivion cities streets and buildings are unrealistically large and because of that they feel very alone and unpopulated.

@mr_silka

Hehe you posted at the same time I was typing this up.

I would be happy to make some more layouts for the city. Do you mind sending me what you have so far, I am not sure what the shape of the city walls is, as well as the actual sizes of the meshes of the houses.

I could do some in-game models of the layout, I would just need those small walls that I mentioned earlier in the post if you like that idea, if not I could come up with something else.

[Jennifer May]

@mr_siika: These pictures are an inspiration, indeed. Now I know, how to get the palace secure from 'upstairs': setting sort of 'cliff hill' beside it, one you cant climb from no side, as in picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Taktshang.jpg (but no 90? walls, of course). This would in second be a perfect place to put the Halls of Colossus upon; unreachable and impossible to find, if you don't know the secret stone door. Like in Lord of the Rings, the doors to Moria, eh? A, no, this is TES, like the entrance to Azura's shrine in Morrowind. For the current hill this will be a lot of reshaping and difficult terrain editing. Though possible without 'visibility flaws' I think, as far as I remember the place. New place for the River Ethe's waterfall? But this should not be started before I finished the palace concepts, and the pagoda has priority.

Unique roof style too. But these ornaments will be a challenge, many triangles/new textures.

... spanning road crossings ... and dome-covered arcades along some of the outer walls? Wonderful place for johnn123's merchants ...

Rimmen has a big gate house now. Haven't done screenshots, as there was an ugly shading effect on it I have to work on. Think I've solved it, but had no more time to test and make pictures. Silly thing is, I've lost my small one by saving over the wrong file, and with all the changes I've done, I can't simply resize it again.

I have to withdraw my texture critics. The more often I look at the UC houses in game, the better they fit. Seems it's a matter of experience with modding. But they need a better matching lowerclass counterpart.

@warex: the walls I haven't mentioned, as they are already in work. Exactly as you describe their use I need this kind of walls for the temple and the palace too. Have done the first (smallest) tiles already, but not enough to put them in the ESP, as there are no corners and no longer wall parts up to now. And no gates, so I'll do some round ones, I think .

I'll remove my 'reserved place' for the 'last Akavir house'; no need for it, with an 'unruined' Akavir palace now. Some extra space for the layout ...

@mr_silka
Hehe you posted at the same time I was typing this up.

That's his speciality, he does this with me too. Most often he answers questions this way already, before I could even finish typing them.

I've never felt 'lonesome' in the Bethesda cities, and like this broad style of the streets. Seems it's really a personal thing, maybe I've got slight claustrophobia?

By the way: warex, do I understand it right, that you are a new team member now? Say yes, you'll get ESP presents on a irregular basis . Anyway, be sure, I'll mistype your alias, always type a z in it, don't know why ...

[Dona BlackHeart]

Gonna have to agree up there and say that wide streets make a town seem smaller. The more buildings you have, and the more closely those buildings are, the larger the city is going to seem. Being unable to simply see over the walls, or see from one end of town to the other creates a stronger illusion of size, and the inherent idea that the place is so populated, they had to construct the buildings right up next to each other. Wide streets means land is being wasted. We don't have vehicles of any kind, and don't need more than small paths as it is. Two excellent examples are Skingrad, and Iliana's Orcrest.

You may personally prefer the wide streets, but in trying to capture the theme of a populated town, it won't work. Frankly, doing anything but the narrow, claustrophobic streets would be a mistake, and significantly detract from the illusion of population, and the need to make use of what land exists.

[Peter P Canning]

I can agree with using small streets to get a more crowded appearence, as there are e.g. definitly limits in AI packages the engine can handle. So no problem with small streets in Rimmen for me.

But if you say: 'the more closely those buildings are, the larger the city is going to seem', I think we're talking about somewhat different things.
I'm living in a country full of cities with parts from the medieval times, and if you're in this tiny streets, you might feel to be in a dungeon, but not of being in a BIG city. It feels like a little village, as you always can't see anything but only few houses.
The prestigious parts of the really big cities in any times were gorgous allees etc., always much 'wasted place', were you can see much more of the cities as between narrow buildings.

So it seems to me, you're talking about 'big' in the sense of 'crowed, a lot of people around here' and from that point of view you're right, that can be accomplished with small streets. What I'm talking about is more the prestigious part, which indeed would be very difficult to realise within the games limitations and the limited 'personal resources' we have.

[P PoLlo]

This looks fantastic. It's a must-have mod with me, along with Elsweyr.

[Nuno Castro]

@mr_siika: These pictures are an inspiration, indeed. Now I know, how to get the palace secure from 'upstairs': setting sort of 'cliff hill' beside it, one you cant climb from no side, as in picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Taktshang.jpg (but no 90? walls, of course).

If you're against vertical cliffs because you're thinking of creating them by reshaping the land height, then you probably haven't seen some of mr_siika's other http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/17184-4-1211054299.jpg http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/17184-5-1211054299.jpg which you can get http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17184. These would be much better than sharply angled land height.

[Jesus Lopez]

Finished the gate house:
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateClosed.jpg
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateInside.jpg
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateHouseEntry.jpg
The door and it's frame in the details picture are seperate, attachable on both sides. An interior part for the gate house will follow.

If you're against vertical cliffs because you're thinking of creating them by reshaping the land height, then you probably haven't seen some of mr_siika's other http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/17184-4-1211054299.jpg http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/17184-5-1211054299.jpg which you can get http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17184. These would be much better than sharply angled land height.

Nothing new for me, and River Ethe's big waterfall is 'mesh constructed' too. Maybe I should ask Auriel for support. These are some of my favorite pictures at all:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27730-1-1258275386.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27730-5-1255843921.jpg
Although this http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27730 is a FPS killer ...

[ZANEY82]

I really like cliffs. Not too sure why. Please put them everywhere

[P PoLlo]

Finished the gate house:
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateClosed.jpg
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateInside.jpg
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz7/Gyoshin/RimmenGateHouseEntry.jpg
The door and it's frame in the details picture are seperate, attachable on both sides. An interior part for the gate house will follow.


Nothing new for me, and River Ethe's big waterfall is 'mesh constructed' too. Maybe I should ask Auriel for support. These are some of my favorite pictures at all:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27730-1-1258275386.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27730-5-1255843921.jpg
Although this http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27730 is a FPS killer ...

Great, Rimmen is leaping forward and looking good.

Also, that mod is insane.
What a beauty.
Rimmen could indeed benefit from these lovely models as well.

[Love iz not]

still waiting for my machine to comeback, im pretty sure it'll be tomorrow though, 3 days at the store is the longest its been before

[Ice Fire]

No clue if this has been solved or not, but the Tsaesci always reminded me of the http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Lamiae from FFXI Online. The Lamiae are based on snakes while the Merrows are based on fish. (Think of a twisted, evil Ariel.)

Just my two cents. What I've seen so far looks gorgeous! Great work from all involved!

[Chantel Hopkin]

still waiting for my machine to comeback, im pretty sure it'll be tomorrow though, 3 days at the store is the longest its been before

That's great to hear! ONWARD RIMMENIAN SOLDIERS!

[Tyrone Haywood]

Sorry guys but I have to leave the team.

I'm addicted to computer games and need to take a veeeeeery long break from them.

This is not a joke.

Good luck

See you once I'll get my life back.

[StunnaLiike FiiFii]

... .. Damn video games ruining everyone!

[Neil]

bye grzesiog good luck! computers still at the store... taking way longer then i thought it would, hopefully its back today

[louise fortin]

Bye Greziog...thanks for helping to start this!