His original force was not nords though, they were colovians because Tiber was a general for the Colovian estates for which he worked for, it wasn't until the battle at Sancre Tor when Wulfharth fooled the nord soldiers invading Sancre Tor into believing Tiber could shout before he actually could shout that he gained Nord troops.

His forces belonged to the king of Falkreath. Wasn't he a Nord? They called him a nordic general then.

Him being called a Nordic general doesn't mean he had nord troops, it could possibly mean he was just a nord, as for Emperor Zero (because I can't be bothered to remember his name) he was a colovian, Falkreath was not always nord territory and just because Zero held it doesn't mean he was a nord, places can change hands very often and it's entirely possible that most of Falkreath was Colovian due to us not knowing how long the Colovians held that location.

I know this is not directed at me, but wasn't Tiber the man Breton or something not nord?

The Tiber Wars started when Cuhlecain, the King of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Falkreath, supported by Chevalier Renald - a member of a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Blades descended from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragonguard - decided to wage war to unify the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Colovian_Estates.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Wars#cite_note-Reman-0} To secure his northern borders in his future bid for conquest, Cuhlecain allied himself with http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim against the forces of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Western_Reach. Leading his forces was a young http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord general called Hjalti Early-Beard, later on named http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Talos.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Wars#cite_note-TAH-1}

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^{Ok, so from the very beginning there were Nords AND colovians. So Nords weren't the sole starters.}

It's often debated between the two, I remember one of the members wrote a giant post explaining why Tiber would choose to tell people he was a Nord instead of a breton in one of the lore topics.


That makes more sense.

Guess we will never know for certain then?

Most likely we won't, MK who wrote the most on Tiber said he was a mix of every race. Honestly I don't care what race he was, though I do like that we can't say for sure and it's heavily debated.

good to know. Just like that the Empire is a mix of every race, and is not anything but a mix of every race, right?

*not spamming, but serious*

The Arcturian Heresy says that Falkreath was a part of Western Cyrodill (Colovia) at the time.

I would not be happy about that. One reason I support them is that I see it as healthy for both Cyrodiil and Skyrim to get out of the empire building business. Of course it will depend on Cyrodiil (or Morrowind or whoever) not threatening their sovereignty or borders. In some cases I think you have a right to seize border lands as a buffer zone- though that excuse is used far too often and too broadly. Or in the case of Cyrodiil seeming to be about to fall into Thalmor hands, that might require an invasion. I hope it would be a temporary one.

Weelll... in their waning days, the western empire was forced to make pretty one-sided, ruinous treaties, for instance with the Persians, because they could not afford to split their forces and were continually having to run back and forth to put out fires on the northern or eastern borders and back again. It's actually a pretty realistic setup. Obviously the mythic element comes into play for ES.

Stormcloaks don't hate an empire, they simply hate THE Empire.

So if SC won and create a new empire, I'd say Stormcloak supporters won't bat an eye

No but some of the supporters on the forums hate the idea of an empire, that's what he meant.

Like myself. But its again not a big enough reason to go against either side.

I personally have never seen a Stormcloak supporter that hates the idea of an Empire. What they hate is the current Empire, dragging people along the highway to hell and throwing them away for its own safety.

I am tired of this thread. The Empire is not good, because there is no "good". They are fighting to keep their wardogs that are the nords on their short leash. They are just as selfish as the rebels, but this thread is not about the rebels right now.

I think the Empire has run its course but I'd have them stick around until the Thalmor is taken care of before dismantling them.

Same, sort of.

The Empire is reaching its end, not denying that. But I'd rather have them take the Thalmor down (with help of course) before that happens. Just one more shot.

The empire in its current structure, while still stronger, couldn't beat the Dominion before. What makes anyone think round 2 is going to be different?

I'm generally against empires, and would hate to see the Stormcloaks go on a Tamriel conquering bout. It would be disastrous, for one thing, and for another, we've had enough of that.

IT is not, that is serious truth.

Because everyone was caught off guard. They had to defend.

Maybe they will go on the offense. Everyone is aware of what they're up to. We'll see the results next game hopefully.

And besides, you say that as if the Empire will lose again. I doubt the Dominion will win round 2.

They have to win, because they need to.

The Altmer are smart. The Empire is weak and won't do anything.

They were caught off guard, but were much stronger, and since the Thalmor can watch their every move now, they still have a strategic disadvantage.

I don't think the Thalmor will win, for long. What I don't see is that a Cyrodiilic empire being in charge of Skyrim and High Rock is the sole winning formula that many people seem to think it is.

Agreed, and the Empire knows it will fall. Mede accepted that and resigns the Empire to that.

I don't think that, but with the alliances many of you bring up often, its possible. I think Empire and allies have to go full offense and not just stay defending the entire time.

The Dominion won't win.