I think that they became diverse simply because including the other races in their culture makes them easier to rule over. Like why Alessia made the new pantheons so nords and elves didnt fight. Not a benevolent thing, just something that made it easier for them to rule.

And dont worry, there's a difference between debating and arguing

Positives: He's a talented general and tactician. And I don't hate him as much as I hate Ulfric. I admire his dutiful nature, and loyalty.

Negatives: He cracks when death is staring right at him, and he's intolerant of other cultures. But he's a military man first and foremost, so it would be foolish of me to expect "cultural tolerance" from him.

Because they don't exist. Well, except for the random dunmer or Imperial farmer who never seems to make it to Windhelm anyway.

I like that he doesn't conveniently die and Rikke decides to make me High King or emperor.

Tullius is like the only character in Skyrim with a proper arc. He starts off as basically a military Governor with visible resentment over the Nord ways, but eventually comes to appreciate, if not entirely understand the concept of Nord Honor.

I feel like Tullius is a great leader as he is a military man. He makes a great character change as the CW progresses though.

Eh? I think you guys are exaggerating this. He makes a grudging remark to Rikke about Nord culture. But in Ulfric's death scene he says "any last words before you go... wherever it is you people go." Real tact, there.

He's simply doing his duty. Do you know how long he's been wanting to get Ulfric?

Thank Alduin.

As opposed to Ulfric explicitly saying "before you go to Oblivion" to Tullius? And drawing out the man's impending demise for the poetic-ness of it? Even Galmar gets fed up with that. It was knowledge that was unimportant to him until he had Ulfric at his knees.

Tullius forgot the name of the place that Nords seem so fixated on going to when they die. Ulfric wished Tullius would become some daedra's b....whipping boy.

So much this. How did I forget to mention that?

"No, I suspect Skyrim to be my home for many years. Can't say I'll ever get used the the damn cold, or understand these Nords...but I've come to respect them. The harshness of Skyrim has a way of carving a man down to his true self."

One of my favorite quotes in the game.

I'm not referring to his killing Ulfric, but to his statement about "you people." That doesn't show this extreme arc of personal enlightenment that people are referring to.

Immaterial. People are claiming Tullius comes around to some big epiphany about Nord culture. His dismissive tone regarding Sovngarde- hell, not even knowing what Sovngarde is, considering that he means to rule Skyrim- refutes that.

While I am not a pro-Empire guy by any means, I still have some respect for the man. Especially the anti-Thalmor attitude he seems to have. If more people like him was in charge of the Empire, I think it would be better off. Instead we have nobles he has to argue with to get what meager reinforcements he gets to Skyrim. Of course, he is a mixed bag, having his "the provinces need us" attitude and what appears to be a complete disinterest in how things actually work in Skyrim.

Ahh... I see. So it's perfectly okay to wish eternal torment at the hands of a daedra, but it's not okay to make an off-hand ignorant comment about Nord afterlife.

Nothing more to discuss...

Eh? Your "but Ulfric does it too!" was irrelevant and off the point. And also non sequitur.

You're missing the point, which is it shows a dismissive attitude to other cultures.

He was not as brave and cultured as Rikke. Rikke had my respect but not him.

General Tulluis is an excellent military leader. The fact that hes manged to do as much as he already has with an underhanded, Ill equipped Legion is nothing short of amazing. He takes his job very seriously as any military leader should. It also helps that he takes council from Legate Rikke, another brilliant leader. The voice actor as well, top choice for the role. I would sleep comfortably under his command and thats the truth. He may have an low opinion of the Nords at first but as he progresses he learns the error of his way and admits it and it takes a man to admit when hes wrong.

All that is true, but... isn't he a bit too cooperative with the Thalmor?

Rikke and Hadvar are clearly against the CGW situation, but don't wish to break their oaths.

General Tullius on the other hand, went as far as bringing Elenwen to the peace council and got upset when Ulfric demanded that she should leave.

And well, when you first see him in the game he's speaking to her (the part where you're still on the cart, entering Helgen).

Maybe I'm wrong and he just craves dat Altmer booty.

Michael Hogan could read a diabetic-friendly cookbook and it'd come off as poetry though.

I really think people are exaggerating his military skills. I think they forget that Ulfric is also limited as well and both sides are making do. He managed to capture ulfric once in an ambush, but after that it was a stalemate fight. He's good, but I don't see where people are getting "great and fantastic" from, as if he was Julius.

So personally leading the 'bush and bag of Ulfric before Helgen is not brave? Standing at the gates of Windhelm at the end of a pro-Imperial campaign is not brave? Facing down a man who has demonstrated he will kill with his Thu'um is not brave?

Call him backwards, culturally dismissive, or whatever. But to say he does not have intestinal fortitude is to be willfully ignorant of these facts.

He has to. As a high ranking General, he can't afford another war starting at his hands. He hates them, he has to tolerate them for the time being. Even his comments if he's at Elenwen's party show that. He doesn't want to create an incident.

Also, I think we all know that Elenwen was going to attempt to free Ulfric on their way to the Imperial City. I'm sure Tullius knew that. That's why he stopped at Helgen. From there, blame Alduin.

The standard of military-tactics in Tamriel is quite poor anyway. I mean, the Imperials use the Battle of the Red Ring as a model for success. It's a good idea if you can always count on hiding an entire army and surrounding a garrison that's been decimated and exhausted by years of campaigning in foreign territory.

By Lady Mara, I mistyped that bit. Allow me to correct it, "WGC".

He attends to Elenwen's party? I've done the MQ a bajillion times and that never happened.

I can get behind that. He's a real straight arrow guy. He kind of reminds me of Harvey, before he became Two-Face...

...kind of.

Alright, I chuckled.

I wouldn't call Ulfric a great Millitary leader and i mean no offense by that, keep reading. Hes a good politician and an excellent speaker and i think the reason they hold out so well so well is because Ulfric raises such a fire within his Stormcloaks that they really strive for the cause. I would say Galmar is the militant of the two, not Ulfric.