But when you're also debating with Ulfric in regards to Elenwen's presence, one of the dialogue options you can choose is "He doesn't want her here any more than you do," or something of the like.

As for in Helgen, there's...nothing really fishy there.

I didn't know. Damn. I never thought of that.

This. Galmar is the one who actually makes most of the strategic military plans.

I think Markarth would show otherwise. Him being militant I mean.The taking of it, not the Markarth incident bs. I'm not saying Ulfric is better than Tullius, and people bringing up Ulfric doesn't really disprove what is said about Tullius. I'm just simply saying that I don't see him being "great". There's really not enough to go off of to say either of them are great.

Who do you think goes over those plans back home? He does the short handed decisions because that is his job on the field. Ulfric makes the over all campaign decisions. One isn't really more militaristic than the other. Their jobs just are different and Galmar only has the war side of things to think of, which is why he wasn't as concerned about the people's families as Ulfric was when he asked why others were still undecided.

As for my opinion of General Tullius, I think he is a great leader and military tactician. Also as others have stated before me, I like how as the CW progresses, he becomes more aware and tolerant of Nord culture, and even states at the end of the CW, that he wants to make Skyrim his home.

''Dont hand me a mug of sheep's piss and call it Colovian brandy''

I like Tullius, too bad we dont know much about him except that he was sent by the Emperor himself to crush the rebellion and thats it. We dont even know his first name. i wish we can know more about him in future TES games. his sarcastic attitude is why i like him, fits his position perfectly. also he seemed very smart, suggesting that he expects a war with the elves soon and other few lines of his. plus at the end he does becomes a bit more friendly to the Dragonborn. add to that the amazing voice acting. Yeah Tullius is the sh*t.

This. I wouldn't be surprised if he had somewhat humble roots. I noticed a lot of great generals and military leaders did.

Freeing a single city and spear-heading a war are two different animals. Brute force can't break even the strongest walls but what happens when there are a hundred of them?

Pre-CW questline- A general that is tired of war and sees the rebellion as a nuisance that hinders the empires efforts to prepare for the Aldmeri Dominion. And ciews Skyrim as a "barbaric" culture due to the value nords give to battle and violence.

Post-CW Questline- A general that happy that the stormcloak rebellion is over and hopes that SC supporters return to their homes to prevent anymore killings, because he cares for tge nords and even admits that he has come to respect them. But he is still worried because he knows the Aldmeri Dominion is still watching from the sidelines and he knows the 2nd great war will be his greatest challenge.

So to me he is a pretty good guy.

Ugh that reminds me, I hate how similar they made him and Ulfric's reactions and decisions in the peace meeting. Ulfric says the same thing, just with mead. I like the line, but wish they didn't make theirs similar based on the dialogue options you pick.

Commander Bailey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> General Tullius

I'm not sure of the point you are making, as he does both of these things. My point is he is no less militant than Galmar is. He just has other jobs that he undertakes, and Galmar's job is strictly military.

Still, I never really saw Ulfric as a military leader. A great politician and very gifted and inspiring speaker yes, but a general or military leader... No.

Getting caught with your pants down during a war of annihilation against you and yours with a known enemy 5th Column element >>>>>> the moments of intestinal fortitude I listed earlier?

My point is that if you have the man power with the goal to free a city it can be done. But fighting a war against an equal opponent is different. The brute force used to take Markarth wont work over and over again. Ulfric wasn't born to be a military strategist and thats why he has Galmar. If it was him alone i doubt he would have lasted as long.

I guess in a way Tulluis would also suffer without Rekke. Without her understanding i doubt Tulluis wouldn't have raised as much Nord support.

After markarth and the duel, I cant not see him as one. That's actually been his main criticism. That people cant see him as anything but a military leader, and that they think the High King should be more. Although the fact that some like yourself see him more as a politician is telling, and shows to me he can be both.

If anything, Galmar seems to be the simple minded one. I think Ulfric simply has him as an advisor. Galmar's the tough love parent really if I had to put it in a way. Nothing about Galmar has ever really given me the idea that he was the man behind the fighting. Otherwise, Ulfric's death wouldn't be as big a deal in the beginning of the game. Although part of that was because Ulfric is also a symbol.

I thought this topic was about Tullius? Or can Ulfric's virtues be brought up in topics not explicitly about him, and just not his flaws?

I think that is telling. Tullius's character is a bit too bland to sustain a whole thread.

Commander General Doctor Mitchell Bailey Tullius is his full name.

Then perhaps the topic should be left to be instead of turning it into another "Praise Ulfric" thread.

when was the last time Tullius suffered near fatal wounds fending off a invasion from a highly advanced organization by himself while most fled?

As if Sovngarde should be viewed in a positive light. You get there through bloodshed. It may as well be Dagon's plane of Oblivion. Oh wait, it may very well be!!

He mentions "beginning to understand and appreciate nordic culture". Beginning being the keyword.

Well as i have already said Ulfric is an excellent speaker and I kid you not when i say this but when i walked into The Palace of the Kings to deliver a message to him from Balgruuf and i heard his speech i felt like joining the Stormcloaks for a split second. To most Stormcloaks their rebellion is as much about Ulfric being High King as it is about Free Talos worship. Without Ulfric and his ability to raise moral the Stormcloaks wouldn't be a adamant in their cause. Galmar is very blunt man and he seems to have a way of cutting though the crap which is good in a military leader. Both Tulluis and Rekke and Ulfric and Galmar are two parts of one whole. Without the other i think they would fail.