Much of what I had thought of TES lore was completely turned on its head after reading even a condensed version of this theory of "enantiomorph". The whole "this god kills this god who was that god but....etc" has left me intellectually in the dust. Can someone spoon-feed it to me like I'm a two-year old, or at least list me the books that I can read and attempt to figure it out? I can labor no longer under false knowledge, especially when I now know that my understanding is incorrect.

As stated in one of the posts below, which I believe is a quote from Albides:

"Akatosh kills Lorkhan who is him, Hjalti kills Cuhlecain to become him. Hjalti tries to become Ysmir, or Ysmir tries to become Hjalti, both living still. Under request of Hjalti, Zurin Arctus kills Ysmir who kills Zurin Arctus whose heart belongs to Hjalti who becomes Tiber Septim becomes the many-headed Talos. Akatosh kills Lorkhan who is him, Hjalti kills Cuhlecain to become him. Hjalti tries to become Ysmir, or Ysmir tries to become Hjalti both living still. Under request of Hjalti, Zurin Arctus kills Ysmir who kills Zurin Arctus whose heart belongs to Hjalti who becomes Tiber Septim becomes the many-headed Talos. Akatosh kills Lorkhan who is him...

An alternate version of events is that Zurin Arctus is not the other half of the enantiomorph. In this case, it's Ysmir. If Magnus is the observor, then so is Zurin Arctus who is closely associated with him"

Real quick and fast.

There are two things, they constantly fight each other. This conflicts made existence, so everything in existence has part of this conflict in it. The things that have more of this conflict in it are strong because they are more 'real'.

The whole enatiomorph business is about recreating this conflict as best as possible to gain power from it. It's acting like a mythic character until you and the mythic character are one and the same.

The enatiomorph are the members of this conflict and they go through a constant cycle of being a rebel, fighting a king, winning and becoming the king, only to be faced by another rebel again.

Like a serpent eating it's own tail, over and over again.

Execution of the enantiomorphic process in some way or another is (one of the) path(s) to apotheosis, as well, IIRC.

In which case, I must ask: what is the path to CHIM?

So is the cyclical nature of the Enantiomorph a product of a convoluted time signature akin to the Warp in the West? Or metaphorical interpretation of a base archetype of cyclical change/subversion?

I wanna say the latter, since the enantiomorphic process is natural, whereas the Warp was hardly natural. In fact, I think the Warp was the result of a break in the cycle (Dragon Break).

But I don't know enough to be sure, so ask Prow.

Just so. The enantiomorph is very much an archetype.

Some have attempted to gain power by invoking these archetypes through dramatisation. This is mantling, which is emulating the gods and taking some of their characteristics. Simple.

Emulating them until you become them, which is why Talos is Arctus is Ysmir is ect, ect.

The path to CHIM isn't quite as important as the achieving of it, and even more important than achieving it is being able to maintain it. If I had to put it into a step by step process, the first step would invariably be the witnessing of the Tower, the "I", the Aurbis turned sideways, and the realization that the world is but a composite hallucination of schizophrenia... That is how Lorkhan began his failed process as well:

"He saw the Tower, for a circle turned sideways is an 'I'. This was the first word of Lorkhan and he would never, ever forget it." http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml

And this makes sense as the starting point as the Aurbis is the starting point:

"It (chim) is a return to the first brush of Anu-Padomay, where stasis and change created possibility." http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml

"All creation is subgradient. First was Void, which became split by AE. Anu and Padomay came next and with their first brush came the Aurbis.

...as the Gods cannot know joy as mortals, their creation, so mortals may only understand the joy of Liberty by becoming the progenitors of the models that can make the jump past mortal death.

And so many of you give up." http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml

But, with such a realization most probably can't take it. Afterall, realizing you're not truly real is a hard pill to swallow. So maintaining the state is the most important thing:

"Moreso, it the essence needed to hold that 'dawning' together without disaster." http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml

But the maintaining is difficult:

"Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration." http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml

However, if you succeed:

"Those who do not fail become the New Men: an individual beyond all AE, unerased and all-being. Jumping beyond the last bridge of all existence is the Last Existence, The Eternal I."http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml

To achieve Chim you must be able to "observes the Tower without fear", to realize the true nature of the world and not be lost by it, to be able to say "I" when you realize there is no 'you'...

"The New Man becomes God becomes Amaranth, everlasting hypnogogic...

I ARE ALL WE."http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml

But I could be wrong...

Wow. This is the "for dummies" version? I'm a long way from CHIM, fellas. :read:

Don't over think it. There is a lot of stuff implied when you say "enantiomorph" which isn't intrinsic. ES stuff tacked on, and it can get overwhelming, but just seperate it all out.

The enantiomorph is two equal/opposite things which are not the same, and can be easily confused. The entirety of existence, Anu/Padomay, is an enantiomorph, si?

Then you have myth confusion. Deeds done by one deity, or an aspect of him, being attributed to another. For the Aedra, who are defined by myth, this can cause them to act as a single entitiy. Lorkhan and Akatosh have fallen into this, and they echo the Anu/Padomay dynamic.

Finally, there is mantelling: "walk like them until they must walk like you". Uh, if you want to be successful do as successful people do? Purposely confusing and combining myths, which are power. Sometimes this includes an enantiomorph, or re-enacting the tale of Akatosh and Lorkhan.

All that tends to be implied when you say "enantiomorph", and tackled as one huge package might be a little much to chew on.

when you say it in plain English like that it really is.

I have always admired both Albides' total knowlege and his ability to convey it in terms that one can understand. Good job, my friend.


___TWM

Do as successful people do, until you yourself become a success story to emulate?

Can we have a comprehensively uber Dummie's guide for the "Six Paths to Heaven" too, please?

This, and the CHIM thread only accout for 2. The other four?

http://micromachine.stanford.edu/~hopcroft/Research/resonator_images/sin_mov1.gif

<<<
In Nirn, there is a reason that Cyrus and Haakan fought over Izsara that goes beyond testosterone.

The Numidium is what happened to the Dwarves; I'd kinda assume you'd could lump the individuals involved in the Warp in the West. The Endeavor, to me, can be considered what Veloth did and what Vehk, and perhaps Tiber, did by relation to CHIM. The Prolix Tower, according to what I've heard in the past, is what the Selective did, and I haven't really seen a major consensus on who has acheived the sixth, which is the Scarab that Transforms into the New Man, though some more educated scholars will probably say Mankar.

OMG that reminds me. Before I joined here I used to lurk around from time to time, and Dumbkid (I think it was him) had written a great paper on the subject. I read it.....I don't know, it was over a year ago, and I think it was about a year old by the time I read it. So maybe 2 years ago, maybe even three???

PLEASE!! Someone tell me it's been saved somewhere. It was brilliant. In fact that whole thread was great. It seems that Dumbkid (I think it was him) was trying to work his way through the walking ways, and had written a great paper on it. He had most of it down, but was off in a few places and the lore masters at that time, (Some who are still hanging around, some who I haven't seen in quite awhile.), were helping Dumbkid (I think it was him) work through the very few rough areas. It was one of the best threads I've seen here. And I would love to read what he wrote again.........hell I want to see the whole thread again, but that might be asking for a bit much.

:bowdown: Dumbkid, (I think it was you), please tell me you have that somewhere, and if so please re-post it. There are many new people here that probably never got to see it, and I think it would be great for all.

Thank you.

To "Dumbkid"...

Your fans are waiting, muthsera. :intergalactic:

Just wondering if this is the same kind of Jumping that the Jumping Demon King wants to get back to Luargar2 ... ?

Well, he was called a "Leaper" moreso than a Jumper, but that could be seen as just mere nitpicking.

I personally doubt it. Confident it just shows Dagon's chaotic nature before he actually became Dagon.

No, the leaper demon stuff was more akin to what the Yokudan creation myth illustrates with Tall Papa side stepping the worldskin.

I believe you have got something there Nazz - for sure with the 'feel' of the tale, and maybe therefore with the source. But there again if there is an underlying / meta- structure / whatever to all this mythopeic-cosmology (hmm - wonder if you folks have been reading that series about the mythopeic forest?) that would likely indicate certain correspondences between the writings and thought of the various races and belief-structures insofar as they are viable. And in ES they do seem to be viable do they not?