they werent mentioned in fallout one because they werent even concieved as a notion of an enemy..
this is why the vault experiments are a load and why i have to laugh when any old schoolers mention canonicity problems with F3

:P

i dontt hink they "need" to be there.
it would be nice to see them come up with a new adversary..
but if they are there, it could still be good

i wouldn't mind the enclave being in the next fallout game, but i don't want fallout 3 enclave.
i want fallout 2 enclave.

as someone here recently mentioned, the enclave used to be something to respect and fear.
they're nobodies in fallout 3. no threat whatsoever.

but yeah, if they're in the next game, give me the chance to join them.
i love me some factions.

I prefer they were not in the next game but if they are then I would like the option of joining them.

rather than say what choices i'm limited to in a game that has "unlimited potential" i'd like to have to have the option...the people dont have to have the same roots, maybe your character was indeed born into the enclave, or maybe he is a raider. thats the thing...live with it, or not...i'd like to have the option there, even if i dont use it...roleplay dangit...roleplay...

I like the way Dragon Age (it's really the MMO style) handled it. Each race...could be factions in Fallout... has their own starting area, and in Dragon Age, each of those araes does a good job of presenting a background for the character. This background can make a difference during the game as well, in terms of dialogue choices, availability of quests, and even choices in equipment and such. Dragon Age doesn't go as far as it could, but it's a good start.

So, what sort of skills would a vault dweller naturally have? What about a typical wastelander, or a raider, or a BoS brat? How would an 18 year old from each of those backgrounds see the world and react to life situations? Game mechanics can nudge PCs in a reasonable RP direction without removing freedom of action for the player.

In Dragon Age, for example, the Human Noble background presents a powerful informal quest of revenge, and opens up some dialogue that reinforces it. The player need not select the special dialogue, but it is there. The city Elf and casteless Dwarf starts provide a a very different world view, and presents the RP opportunity to select dialogue choices to support that world view. A rogue character from a noble birth would certainly see the world differently than a casteless Dwarf would. Regardless, the player may continue to select any presented dialogue choices.

All of this requires development, of course, but I think it would be well spent here.

I want to see less of a focus on the big organisations like the Brotherhood and the Enclave (as much as I love the Enclave) and I'd like to see a greater focus on the struggle for life. Smaller factions with less power, but a greater diversity. It'd be nice to see less high-tech, crazy-powerful weapons and more, flawed, homemade weapons (i.e. the almighty pipe rifle!).

Yeah i remeber the old days when i was playing FO2
the enclave were strong back then i really wish you could join the enclave in FO4.In FO3 the enclave are like lets say the Dic.k skin

They were not big or widespread by the end of Fallout 2. They are only because Bethesda made up Eden and moved them across the whole continent. In Black Isle's own Fallout 3, there were just going to be some scattered groups of disorganized Enclave remnants.

I thought it was too bad you don't get to interact with the Chinese ghouls .....there were several things the LW could have been given to do with them rather than only having the option of fighting them.

I had enough of the Enclave since Fallout 2. No more. Fallout 3 killed them all.

Well to be honest, having the Enclave in Fallout 3 was a bit of odd, since by Van Buren, they were basically running a majority of their operations out of Camp Navarro and had small expeditionary force operating in the Southwest.

Bethesda made the choice not me, hell they made all the choices, if the choices werent soone sided maybe but we are pretty much hurded down one path, the "c hoice" was only there to maintain the illusion of the freedom rpgs should offer.

And people who vote no why ?! If you dont want to play as them fine but more freedom/choices and divercity is never a bad thing.

One of the biggest problems with Fallout 3, was how that the character was railroaded into helping the BOS whether or not they cared about their cause.

I still think it's because they don't know how to do grey, they just stick to black and white and the "good guys" always have to win.

That wasn't the case with Bethesda in TES I-III. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the only Bethesda games showing black and white morals. Morals and people in Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind weren't black and white, they were grey.

I don't remember all or even very much of Morrowinds story but did you not have to kill an "evil god"? sounds black and white to me... Arena and dagger fall are different games entirely as they really didn't have stories that I can remember it was really just mindless dungeon crawling and hack and slash from the little I remember of them.

No, he had to be stopped, but Dagoth Ur was not plain evil. He did what he believed was best. He was a madman, but he was not evil. Besides, you never have to do a quest in an Elder Scrolls game. People were not plain evil or good in Morrowind, and to a degree, they are not plain evil or good in Oblivion either, but they appear to be more black and white in Oblivion than they do in Morrowind. Just because someone is to be stopped by the main character in a game doesn't mean they are evil. Bethesda knows how to make grey characters and morals, but they've made it more black and white recently. Morrowind certainly is not black and white though.

The original Fallout's were extremely gray with a majority of the characters having hidden agendas and you never felt that your character was being manipulated to "do the right thing". Even Van Buren from what most of us can figure, was a fairly gray game, but Fallout 3 always made the player feel like they were basically a pawn, without any real freedom.

I'd love to join the Enclave, I always hated how they made you join the good side :swear:

I bet Autumn is trying to reconstruct the Enclave. It depends if Bethesda will do anything with them in the next game that determines their appearance.

The thing is bethesda ruined fallout when they touched it, the BoS were already gray, now they are [censored] saints. The enclave have always been gray imo, the ends justify the means methods, but in fallout 3 they are psychotic, idiotic and pretty much nazis, in fallout 2 they had no problem working with exposed people and ghouls, now its just kill them because they are not like us, even though we could use them to our advantage. Seriously how can they mess things up THAT bad making 2 gray factions black and white. So a suggestion to bethesda why dont you get the guys working on fallout NV or anyone from black isle and have them help you fix the next game and make it have a decent plot.

Wow, I don't agree with ANY of this.

I would argue the opposite, in fact. Enclave in FO2 struck me as totally self absorbed and inherently evil. Everytime the player saw them in action they were killing people. If anything, FO2 was significantly more black and white than FO3.

In FO3, you see the split of the BoS along the fundemental question of jsut what responsibility the BoS SHOULD have to improve the world. In FO3 you see a similar split in the Enclave,

The BoS split was oucast gray and the BoS were white, suddenly thinking of saving everyone. The enclave split was between a psychotic machine and a logical thinker. So nope still not seeing any gray in fallout 3. Even in fallout 2 the enclave was divided one offered to help kill the rest of the enclave thinking humanity had its chance.

i dont agree that the BoS "are now saints" maybe Lyons group.. but that is hardly the majority of the BoS. Read up, cause they arent even supported by the BoS corprate office.. Given that, gamesas didnt ruin anything.. they just zoomed in on one facet of a multi-faceted gem.. If every faction was the exact same as previous spins, what would be the fun in that?

As a fan of the original Fallout's, that is how I want things. I don't want "Bethesda Spin"!