I assume all Enclave armors are indeed better than both the T-45d and 51b. They're just not so in-game because of gameplay adaptations. In-game dialogues seem to support this as well.

Definitely! I think it's silly for someone who blew up Megaton to save the Capital Wasteland with the aid of the Brotherhood of Steel.

Their purpose is not (just) to destroy life, but to bring back the values and the greatness of a lost time. That is made clear by the Eden broadcasts. This whole "God and Country" paradigm is hardly new in the US, and those who attach themselves to it are convinced that it is the right way to do things. Many in history ahve gone this rout, with varying degrees of success.

This is much more than the Enclave in FO2, whose sole purpose seems to be to kill everyone they can. We get a story at the end of the game, but that isn't nearly as effective, IMO, as the Enclave treatment in fO3.

-I'd like to see a bit of struggle within the enclave.
-Them having spies in the brotherhood.
-Struggeling with moral issues
-Having their scientists actually inventing something
-etc.

The Biggest Problem with the Enclave in Fallout 3 is that "Take It Back!" makes not a lick of [censored] sense.

Autumn rebelled against Eden's wishes. He wants to activate the Purifier, but not kill everyone. He literally went into full on rebellion with Eden to this end. You finish up with Eden, and then return to the Brotherhood where the Brotherhood decides to use their Super Robot to kill the Enclave...for no reason what-so-ever.

It almost seems like Autumn and Eden had their personalities swapped at the last minute. There's no real need to drive out the Enclave from Project Purity because they aren't doing anything harmful. They might figure out the code to the Purifier, but then so what? They have access to the clean water of the Wasteland and can distribute it accordingly and probably prickishly, but the Enclave under Autumn wouldn't have been any more vicious and cruel then Ashur's Army in the Pitt.

Instead, the Brotherhood suddenly HAS TO eject the Enclave from Project Purity and stop them - despite the fact you're the one holding the keys to the destruction of the Capital Wasteland. It would have been far easier to believe Autumn had the FEV and was going to use it to contaminate all the water in the Capital Wasteland then what we got.

Also the whole schism within the Enclave (Where Autumn seemed to give the Enclave a soul) is never utilized in any way. You deal with Eden as you wish, and then you can deal with Autumn as you wish. Neither has any impact over any part of the story and Broken Steel carries on with the idea that the Enclave is bad - despite the fact in Broken Steel the Enclave get even more nonsensical in their goals. It's further complicated by the fact in Broken Steel there is no Enclave "Big Bad" to deal with. Not a lick of story anywhere to Broken Steel. Just one giant shooting gallery.

That stuff is just propaganda.



I don't see how seeing as their goal in Fallout 3 is exactly the same; the only difference is that Enclave utilized propaganda while Richardson infiltrated post-apocalyptic society.

Ok, YOU know that Autum wants to activate the purifier without any tricks, but does the BoS know that? No, what they see is a bunch of Vertibirds covered in Enclave Stickers headed towards PP, with 'Clavers crawling around the purifier in Advanced Power Armor, and the knowledge that the last time the Enclave walked about they nearly wiped out almost all life on Earth. Plus, the BoS did put in quite an investment into getting PP build.

For all the BoS knows, the Enclave could be trying to plant a nuke in the purifier and detonate it.

That is, frankly, simplistic. When we talk to Eden face to face, he makes very clear his views of the future. The broadcasts are obviously propaganda, but as in all propaganda campaigns, there is a purpose for it, and we learn that purpose from Eden himself.

And unlike the previous games, we get involved with the Enclave early enough for us to really think about it.

Eden was buttering you up so you'd do his dirty work. He needed someone to place the FEV-2 in the purifier, and he definitely lied about whom the virus would effect. The FEV-2 kills anyone who isn't inoculated against its effects; not just mutants. There's absolutely no reason to believe much of anything Eden says as he's clearly taking after a traditional politician (and he even admits that he studied every President in American history).

Some of what Eden says may be true, but a good deal of it is not, and there's a lot he definitely avoids telling you. Believing Eden during your conversation is like believing a politician during election time. Everything Eden says is based purely on calculation, and not about being a straight up nice guy who wants the best for America. Eden is first and foremost a machine, and a machine turned politician is not something I'd place much faith in.

For starters: The Brotherhood waits for you to return before launching any offensive - and theoretically you should be able to tell them about Autumn. Also, the Brotherhood has very little invested in Project Purity, seeing as how they let it sit abandoned for 20 years.

The Enclave is a threat, I'm not saying they aren't, but all the events of Fallout 3 make that threat out to be marginal at best after the events of Raven Rock. Yeah Broken Steel opens up a new level of threat, but again it's not pieced together well at all.

Yes, just like any politician pushing their drivel, and that is why the Enclave in FO3 is more believable than in FO2: Eden sells his story from the first time you hear the station to the end of the game. You can decide what is going to bring sanity to the Wasteland faster and more effectively: A grass roots movement by empowered people, or the direct, authoritarian and organized action by a powerful agency. You get to decide if the ends justify the means, and you were not able to make that decision in FO2 with an Enclave that was nothing more than background.

I disagree completely, but that should be no surprise at this point since we don't seem to agree on anything . The Enclave had no reason to push anything on you in Fallout 2; you weren't anything special to them, and your aid certainly wasn't necessary. Eden needed a third party to do his dirty work; Richardson's plan almost came to fruition without your help.

I honestly don't see how the Enclave is any more believable in Fallout 3. In Fallout 2 They manipulated post-apocalyptic society from the shadows. They were in control of the slave and drug trade, as well as several other ventures that allowed them to hold many of the core region's major players in their pocket without actually revealing their existence. Some wastelanders might have seen power armored troops or vertibirds, but they'd have no idea where they came from (and some might have assumed they belonged to the Brotherhood of Steel). That strikes me as a very sensible political and strategic move, and very efficient.

If you control everyone you have no need of propaganda, and there's no point in announcing your presence if it's not necessary for your goals (and its actually quite foolish). The Enclave struck me as a far more effective political organization in Fallout 2 because they operated in the shadows manipulating everything by using post-apocalyptic society's strengths and weaknesses against it. They didn't need to reveal themselves, so why should they? There's no point in playing nice with the people of the wasteland if you're just going to kill them all anyway. It's smarter to stealthily take what you need from them and then execute your endgame. A good politician is a master manipulator, and that's exactly what the Enclave is in Fallout 2.

In the end both incarnations of the Enclave are equally believable; it's just plain silly to say that the Fallout 3 Enclave is more realistic. Propaganda is certainly a real tactic, but so is the type of manipulation the Enclave utilizes in Fallout 2. The Enclave simply used more complex chess tactics in Fallout 2 while they took on a more up front approach in Fallout 3.



Being able to decide whether the Enclave is right or not doesn't really make them more evolved, but it's always nice to have a choice. Although I would never actually side with them in the game I do like how you have the option of doing so.

Actually, if you recall correctly, Lyons and his BoS are all geared up and are only a few minutes from launching their offensive when you arrive (AKA Lyons demanding the Scribe to activate despite it not being properly tested for combat.) In fact, you can only make a single statement to Lyons about one bit you learned before they start mobilizing, and let's face it, I don't think "The Enclave just want to activate the purifier" is on the same level as or or even .

Also, there's a reason they abandoned Project Purity; the Super Mutants were pretty much doing a number on their troops, and the research was going nowhere. Since the research had come to a standstill, the BoS saw no reason to continue wasting their troops on what seemed to be a dead project when they had more pressing concerns, such as recovering tech from the DC ruins before the Super Mutants or raiders got to it.

This also explains their renewed intrest in PP when James figured out how to make it work; now that it can produce clean water, they can actually do something for the wasteland that produces near-immedate results. And they're how far into their crusade? That kind of result would certainly be a morale booster during a time when, quite frankly, you're barely seeing any progress day-to-day or even year-to-year.

Seems to me it does, especially in a RPG.

The only games I have played over 100 hours of are GTA: San Andreas and Fallout 3.

Freedom is key. Being able to just fu*k about and have fun, explore the land, slaughter people and enjoy the atmosphere! And then we get expansions, which is really nice if you're playing Fallout 3 on a 360.
I can't wait for the next installment

I want to be able to join up with army's as well as smaller gangs. I want to be able to be a raider (I suppose you'd have to look like one as well to be accepted)!

I think Beth is leaving the Vanilla version as cannon, and even if they do leave the vanilla version as cannon that doesn't exactly mean that the Enclave don't have another card up their sleeve. When BS came out if the first thing you thought was "I'm going to have to fight my way through an old military airforce base and kill everything in some sort of Enclave Crawler" then you must be able to see the future. for all we know the enclave has a base on the moon and are just sending all the rejects back down to earth.

The Enclave shouldn't have been in Fallout 3. They are done, finished, move on. There are plenty of other threats that can be thought up.

sorry but I don't think so Majosha.

They are to big. To wide spread. I could see different kinds of Enclave. Maybe even outcasts of the Enclave? But still what would they realy have to do other then raiders and muties. The Chinese?

In Fallout 2, they were imposing, dangerous and deadly.

Why I am not getting this feeling in Fallout 3 too? And they just don't make any sense (Broken Steel FTL). I say let them rot, they are already done.

Bethesda made them look like your typical B-grade movie baddies.

I must say I did like the Enclave, as villains, they were an interesting enough concept, they had a goal, and not just to destroy or conquer the world because "they're eeeevil!", but at the same time, they were enough of a threat that you had a reason to oppose them. However, they've already been the main antagonist in two games, if Bethesda does use them again, and it's not like they're so iconic to the series that it just wouldn't feel like Fallout without them. I'd like Bethesda to come up with something more original for the next game, and if the Enclave do appear again, they should be just one of the factions that exist in the game, and not actually the main villain.

As to joining them, I wouldn't be opposed to that, if the option existed, I might not take it anyway, but it would be nice to have such an option, in fact, it would be nice if Bethesda brought joinable factions into the game, it would add more options.

I didn't ahve any problem with Enclave in FO3, but I think I'd rather see someone else3 now, perhaps one of the groups from FO:T.

I just don't think there should be The Enclave in the next Fallout. Sure, perhaps you may stubble across some wastelander wearing old rusted Enclave issue Power Armor, or, depending on what time the next games takes place, maybe a lost group of the fallen Enclave wandering around.

I'm trying to remember an RPG series that I've played that has the same main enemy twice.
Even though they may be some, I actually can't think of any... it seems that recurring villains aren't too common in RPGs
(western ones at least)
So I think the chance of seeing the Enclave in such a role (for the third time in a row) is pretty slim anyway.

Well technically one of the endings in Fallout 2 means that the Enclave should have disbanded by 2277 and shouldn't have been in Fallout 3 at all, or at least not still ruling the country.

I think it would be quite a cool opportunity though all the same.

They were going to be disbanded in Black Isle's Fallout 3 which was going to be set 12-20 years after Fallout 2.



There isn't any; which is why I'm amazed that some people find them "iconic" and "necessary". This is especially curious since they were not even as much as mentioned in the original Fallout, nor either of the spin offs Fallout: Tactics and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. There's nothing iconic or necessary about them; they were originally one shot villains just like The Master, the Calculator, and the Super Mutant leader in BoS.