Enchanting, Smithing (and Alchemy) Need to be Easier to leve : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 am

Just chiming in.

I did not powerlevel smithing at all. I did not purchase a single material from a shopkeep. I brought a pickaxe with me and mined when I could along my journeys. I also tended to find a ton of jewels lying around in dungeons.

From just smelting the ore I mined myself, skinning the animals I killed myself, and making things with what I had, I hit 100 smithing before I hit 100 in anything else. I made so much money off jewelry alone it isn't funny. I think I hit 100 smithing around character level 35 or so.

I can't imagine if it were made any easier.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:48 pm

how about I give you the vegas pro (Arrgggghhh-Bay) and you can keep the flash drives if you hit under 65 hours, keep in mind you gotta send them back so I can view the footage

@jimmy-If you have a better term Ill use it, I didn't realize I needed a pedigree in video gaming even If I was using the term in the widely accepted version on these forums

You don't need a pedigree, you just need to know that using the term powerlevel to describe 'buying iron ingots and turning them into daggers' is laughable.

The crafting system in Skyrim isn't intended to be a 'find a few things in the world and make great items' system like it is in other games. You're supposed to play through the game as a crafter and gain an advantage by becoming skilled in your craft. How do crafters become skilled in real life? They practice.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:00 am

how about I give you the vegas pro (Arrgggghhh-Bay) and you can keep the flash drives if you hit under 65 hours, keep in mind you gotta send them back so I can view the footage

@jimmy-If you have a better term Ill use it, I didn't realize I needed a pedigree in video gaming even If I was using the term in the widely accepted version on these forums

as long as you are aware the first (estimate) 24-48 hours will be /afk macroing (basic skill leveling)

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:32 pm

as long as you are aware the first (estimate) 24-48 hours will be /afk macroing (basic skill leveling)

That wasn't the deal, to level 100 playing "naturally" or at least as normally as you can play, I understand there will be some unavoidable bias

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:30 am

That wasn't the deal, to level 100 playing "naturally" or at least as normally as you can play, I understand there will be some unavoidable bias

It is playing natural, It will just be macro'd. There is no need for me to be at interface, other than to pop in and check progress. which would say, prolly be every 3-4 hours.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:54 pm

So one thing Ive been thinking on is how much more relaxed the leveling system is this time, there really isn't a reason to not level, unless you wanna buy some trainer points, but one thing that bugs me is how tedious smithing, enchanting and to a lesser extent (because you use it much more) alchemy is to level. Right now I counted (using the Warrior Stone) around 6-11 Iron daggers (scaling from level 30 to 100) per level needed to raise it. Being that if I'm just playing "Naturally" unless I have some ore and leather Im not going to improve or smith something more than say 20-50 times a game, so if I want to benefit from 100 something I need to power level it, if I want to stay balanced I need to do it in increments ie up to level 50 until Im level 30 then 70 until 40 then 100 until I make a new char. Im not saying you should get 1 level every iron dagger but lessening it would both make it more clearly marked as a skill to level as you go and would make it probable to level to 100 just playing "laissez-faire"

EDIT: PLEASE READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER LEVELLING

I admit I read only your post there.

But I think it would be no-good to make even faster... Mastered crafting proffesions give you enormous power, if you get to it even faster, it would be laughable. I think the point here is... You are not supposed to start the game, master Smithing and enchanthing, make ebony armor, upgrade everything to legendary and enchant it twice and THEN go play the game. Just craft as you collect materials along the way and you'll see the speed is just right.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:12 pm

I admit I read only your post there.

But I think it would be no-good to make even faster... Mastered crafting proffesions give you enormous power, if you get to it even faster, it would be laughable. I think the point here is... You are not supposed to start the game, master Smithing and enchanthing, make ebony armor, upgrade everything to legendary and enchant it twice and THEN go play the game. Just craft as you collect materials along the way and you'll see the speed is just right.

a lot of people in this world seem to listen, but there not actually listening, ever get that feeling? please at least read and understand before forming an opinion

@embargo-the normal and natural way for the majority of people playing does not include macros, I can say this with complete confidence, so no

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:55 am

a lot of people in this world seem to listen, but there not actually listening, ever get that feeling? please at least read and understand before forming an opinion

Nothing like telling a thread full of people attempting to enlighten you that they need to read and understand.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:00 am

Roleplay as a smith? Mine ore and turn it into ingots.

That'll get it up fast...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:14 am

Nothing like telling a thread full of people attempting to enlighten you that they need to read and understand.

you make the second person I have to say this to, please read and understand, I was addressing one person, now 2

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:33 am

a lot of people in this world seem to listen, but there not actually listening, ever get that feeling? please at least read and understand before forming an opinion

A lot of people seem to have problems with game before really playing it, without actually knowing what they are talking about, ever get that feeling? Please at least.... Oh well, i'm sure you can figure how the rest goes.

I wasn't trying to be offensive back there, just saying it is very easy and natural to master smithing and enchanting using only what you find in your travels, crafting a bit each time you go shopping... And that way, you can simply and not forcefully master it before level 25-30, which actually fits in pretty well with the upgrades you'll have availiable.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:05 pm

A lot of people seem to have problems with game before really playing it, without actually knowing what they are talking about, ever get that feeling? Please at least.... Oh well, i'm sure you can figure how the rest goes.

I wasn't trying to be offensive back there, just saying it is very easy and natural to master smithing and enchanting using only what you find in your travels, crafting a bit each time you go shopping... And that way, you can simply and not forcefully master it before level 25-30, which actually fits in pretty well with the upgrades you'll have availiable.

ok, well we both took shots at each other, now I guess that evens us, in actuality Ive played over 200 hours, on my first char, I played over 100 hours and never got my smithing over 60 or 70, which is why Im making the point

as far as roleplaying as a smith, I guess thats possible, but then the majority of players arent going to do so

EDIT: also, just turning ore into ingots doesn't actually yield experience, you have to make a weapon or armor to do that

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:27 pm

ok, well we both took shots at each other, now I guess that evens us, in actuality Ive played over 200 hours, on my first char, I played over 100 hours and never got my smithing over 60 or 70, which is why Im making the point

as far as roleplaying as a smith, I guess thats possible, but then the majority of players arent going to do so

If you always carry a pickaxe around with you and stop by all the veins and mines, you really get enormous quantities of iron... And gettng leather seems to be even faster, even if you are not focusing on it.

On thee characters I always got smithing to 100 before 30 without really focusing on it, using just what I found and maybe buying a bit of ore when smiths ran out of money, so I just don't see the problem, that is all. I may think that the upgrades you get are a little bit over-power, but I don't think the scaling is problematic.

One way or another, once the CK comes out, everyone will be able to set the speed exactly how they like it, which is good.

Edit: Yes. Yes I know.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:58 am

If you always carry a pickaxe around with you and stop by all the veins and mines, you really get enormous quantities of iron... And gettng leather seems to be even faster, even if you are not focusing on it.

On thee characters I always got smithing to 100 before 30 without really focusing on it, using just what I found and maybe buying a bit of ore when smiths ran out of money, so I just don't see the problem, that is all. I may think that the upgrades you get are a little bit over-power, but I don't think the scaling is problematic.

One way or another, once the CK comes out, everyone will be able to set the speed exactly how they like it, which is good.

Edit: Yes. Yes I know.

actually I was addressing the edit to the poster above you, but yes, true enough once we get the CK everyone can play as they choose

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:24 pm

There's a simple thing that you need to understand - the Smithing skill isn't intended to hit 100 just on making & improving gear for yourself. That'd be irrational - if going the 20 points between Elven and Glass happened in five armor pieces, a weapon, and six "improvements", you'd be getting it way too quickly. The skills need to improve slowly, in order for the leveling system to work. (Personally, I feel like some of the lower level increases happen too fast - disenchanting one item can give a skill point or more in the beginning. Kind of crazy.)

in actuality Ive played over 200 hours, on my first char, I played over 100 hours and never got my smithing over 60 or 70, which is why Im making the point

I hit smithing 70, as I mentioned, in the mid-30s. Which was around ~60 hours. Which feels, to me, like I was taking my time with it - I didn't rush things.

Interesting how different peoples' perceptions are.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:16 am

Getting to 100% skill in any of the crafting skills is supposed to represent a lifetime of work and mastery. It's not something you should causally bump into with regular "normal" gameplay.

If you want to get to 100, you need to make smithing a lifetime career. You need to work with many types of armors. You need to create and mix ores, you need to build full sets, bows, knives, swords... etc. To me, smithing should level more slowly.

I think XP should be lowered, and I think it should all be relative to the dollar value of the item you make. Also, I think you should get bonus XP for the first time you make something, to encourage you to make at least one of every item.

There ya go.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:02 pm

There's a simple thing that you need to understand - the Smithing skill isn't intended to hit 100 just on making & improving gear for yourself. That'd be irrational - if going the 20 points between Elven and Glass happened in five armor pieces, a weapon, and six "improvements", you'd be getting it way too quickly. The skills need to improve slowly, in order for the leveling system to work. (Personally, I feel like some of the lower level increases happen too fast - disenchanting one item can give a skill point or more in the beginning. Kind of crazy.)

I hit smithing 70, as I mentioned, in the mid-30s. Which was around ~60 hours. Which feels, to me, like I was taking my time with it - I didn't rush things.

Interesting how different peoples' perceptions are.

I play on PC so I keep track of my hours through steam, and I smithed more than just my armor, ie smithing gold and silver (and iron with transmute) can increase an items value and worth selling, but other things like weapons and armor are many times just better to sell in pieces instead of smithed together

Also like someone said earlier there shouldn't be 4 pieces between 0 and 100, which I obviously agree with, but why can't there be a middle ground?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:27 pm

Getting to 100% skill in any of the crafting skills is supposed to represent a lifetime of work and mastery. It's not something you should causally bump into with regular "normal" gameplay.

If you want to get to 100, you need to make smithing a lifetime career. You need to work with many types of armors. You need to create and mix ores, you need to build full sets, bows, knives, swords... etc. To me, smithing should level more slowly.

I think XP should be lowered, and I think it should all be relative to the dollar value of the item you make. Also, I think you should get bonus XP for the first time you make something, to encourage you to make at least one of every item.

There ya go.

Word!

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:41 am

I'm going to let you in on something. They are very easy to level. In fact, so easy it's almost game-breaking.

archery will take you some time..but it is about as balanced as it should be. (just about the only skill that scales well, that I've encountered)

This. Smithing is sooooooo easy it's incredible. Shoot every animal in sight, take their hides, visit a blacksmith, convert to leather and strips on the tanning rack, buy all iron ingots and leather off of the black smith, make tons of iron daggers, leather helmets boots etc. Sell all back to the blacksmith.

I was at 100 smithing before I had even visited the greybeards.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:30 pm

actually I was addressing the edit to the poster above you, but yes, true enough once we get the CK everyone can play as they choose

...If something, I really, really think they should add the ability to just click on "craft all" on smelter and tanning rack, because going E > Yes, E> Yes... 50 times gets really a bit dull over the time.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:49 am

Obvious sarcasm is obvious. You can get 100 in any of these, and make money in the process, in a matter of an hour or less. Time is not the limiting factor. You have to impose your own limits in this game. I limit myself to one crafting skill and limit that to 2.5 skill levels for each character level. That seems reasonable to me.

Look I'm not complaining and am fine with being able to level up smithing quickly (heck you're doing it, you ARE smithing). To me "game breaking" is being able to level combat skills by attacking.......NOTHING (like in Oblivion).

With that said, I'm not sure self nerfing is the same thing as game balance.

But I do agree with you, sometimes self nerfing is needed (in just about every game). Right now I have a warrior that's high dual wielding, high smithing, high light armor, high sneak and high archery (by high I mean high points AND lots of perks). Too fricken overpowered. I'm thinking of scrapping it and starting over, not putting any perks in archery or sneak this time. Just put more perks in the other 3 trees and fill them out easily.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:09 am

Easier, it's already too easy to max all 3 of those skills.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:31 am

smithing is really easy to level and I found a few perks in enchanting works fine. Alchemy takes longer but is simple as well. Archery is deadly easy. heres how if your interested:

Spoiler

If you want to level archery then get faendal as a follower and train 5 levels per level and after you train check his inventory by asking him to trade and you can get your money right back. He trains up to level 50. Discretion is advised since leveling archery too fast could cause you to level too fast and things might get difficult but after you have raised about 10 levels, 5 levels per level should be fine.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:54 pm

Enchantment levels up pretty fast especially if you disenchant items. It is only Alchemy that levels up very slowly.

Alchemy levels based on the value of the potion created and potions/poisons with multiple effects have much higher values than single effect potions. If you focus on potions with three ingredients that have two or more effects alchemy levels quickly.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:17 am

Am i the only one who thinks all this talk about limiting yourself from doing stuff or "self nerfing" is something we should not have to be doing to keep this game from beign too easy? This is still a great game even if in my opinion the developers messed up the crafting in this. I mean when i play legend of zelda i dont have to limit myself by not picking up extra heart pieces. Or when i play Final Fantasy i wont use any summons. In most of the classic rpg games i have played id have to put in many many hours at it so that the game rewards me with its most epic grear or skills. In Skyrim i can craft the best stuff myself with little effort. If they dont change this then they should put some far greater things for you to find out there.