He wanted to commit genocide in the name of racial purity. That's generally considered evil.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/John_Henry_Eden

Right before the evil karma thing it says "utilizing the ZAX corporation's super-computer technology to aid him in the reclamation and recreation of a new United states - one free of impurities due to corruption, incompetence and mutations".

They only lost because of writing do you really think a faction with star wars type tech and air superiority is gonna lose in real life I highly doubt it. Don't give me the BS number advantage story either the NCR beat the legion with small numbers. Writing is the only reason. Anyway I would like to see them change and Autumn leading them. Why doesn't the Enclave have tanks or APC's either the BOS in tactics had a bunch of vehicles. Also for 100 plus years on a oil rig they haven't developed much the FEV is pre-war they just modified it the vertibird is pre-war and so are the laser and plasma weapons the only thing they developed on the rig was apa.

He wanted to commit genocide in the name of racial purity.

No. Not racial purity. Eden never makes any reference to the wastelanders being "impure" (disregarding the fact that "race" isn't the appropriate word in any case).

Eden is more targeting the animal based and Super-mutant mutations. In fact, he is specifically targeting them. The wastelanders are "unfortunate collateral" to him.

"If the water purifier can be activated, it can be used to distribute toxins that will eliminate any mutated creatures upon ingestion."

"I understand that you may have become sympathetic to certain individuals in your travels. Individuals that this will probably eliminate. Please recognize that the fate of our entire country rests on this plan. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good."

He is not targeting the wastelanders specifically. You can call him "evil" but at least call him "evil" for the right reasons.

Exactly, the main goal it to remove extreme mutations, ghouls, supermutants, etc. The wastelanders would only be killed because of the extreme radiation and toxic environment of the mainland, and they were only getting killed because that strain of FEV killed all mutants no matter what the mutation. Although Autumn's plan is more simpathetic than Eden's,

He's still willing to wipe out perhaps thousands of innocent people just so the Enclave can re-establish control, something even Colonel Autumn, who kills innocent bystanders to make a point and will kill the player if they cooperate to get the Purifier running (although to be fair I get the impression that he's more fanatical and deluded that he's doing the right thing than truly malicious), finds horrifying enough that you can convince him to walk out. But in the interest of whatever we were discussing before, allow me to rephrase my previous post:

In retro science fiction, the best way to deal with an extremist supercomputer (or any self-aware retro supercomputer, for that matter) is to out-logic it.

Well technically it's easier to use the self-destruct sequence, but typically in retro science fiction, the protagonist doesn't have access to those.

Yes, enclave should come back and big time. Its most interesting faction in fallout and im sure enclave isnt so weak that it only had few bases.

I'm sure they have plenty of bases scattered throughout the continent. But I'd rather not have them be a focus of another FO game for a long time. There's plenty of other stories to tell.

In retro science fiction, the best way to deal with an evil computer is to out-logic it.

Yeah I've seen that Star Trek.

Yeah two hundred years of crazy former government officials and armed forces working toward one goal, they had to have done a lot more than what was shown.

Point is, you were saying his goal was "racial purity" which is no doubt a hitler-esque reference. When that has nothing to do with Eden's plan at all. His plan is to go nuclear on the various hostile mutant abominations at the unfortunate cost of some wastelander lives. Primarily because he doesn't believe his soldiers can successfully protect the wastelanders while at the same time fighting off the various mutates. He doesn't believe a successful rebuilding can even commence without the removal of the mutates.

Autumn however, is willing to duke it out. Even if its more risky for his soldiers and the Enclave as a whole. This is why Eden calls Autumn's plan "lacking in objectivity."

I don't care if you call him evil, but I'd like to get the record straight on why he is considered "evil."

Indeed. It's about what they perceive as American not some [censored] "we are ze master-race", if the Canadians came down to America they wouldn't be pals with them either just because they passed a genetic test.

Yeah they think they're better because they are not mutants but they are killing people just because they are mutants; they want what they consider their land back.

The Enclave believe that the only way for America to truly rebuild itself and be safe, is that extreme mutations have to be removed. I don't exactly agree with the kill all mutants part, but their doing what they think has to be done.

That isn't true. It is any mutation even ones that are an improvement.

Richardson: "Very moving. But the radical changes your villagers and other mutants show is a far cry from the gradual changes of natural evolution."

Chosen One: "Maybe we're changing into a better version of the human race. Did you ever think of that?"

Richardon: "Very possible, indeed. In which case, our mission is even more vital to the survival of the human race."

Chosen One: "Huh? What do you mean by that?"

Richardson: "If your kind is allowed to flourish it'll mean the end of the human race as we know it. We can't allow radioactive freaks to squeeze humans into extinction."

Chosen One: "I think you're overestimating things a bit."

Richardson: "Not at all. Look to the future. Sure muties and men could get along for a while, but before you know it, the numeric pressure of your kind would tell. No, a line must be drawn in the sand - the buck stops here."

President Richardson admits that some mutations are a good thing, an improvement, but they wouldn't be human anymore. They would be better then human and someday outdo and overthrow the human race and therefore need to be removed.

I was going from the idea that they consider all mutations extreme.

Sorry for confusion. I thought you meant "extreme" as in ghouls and super mutants being the most obvious mutations and wastelanders looking completely normal being the least mutated.

Durp....in that Richardson quote he basically says the cause of "mutation" is radiation


Which would mean there are PLENTY of pure or close to pure humans running about.

Especially those with access to medical technology.

It also means the Enclave and especially Richardson are full of crap.

How so exactly? The mutation Richardson speaks of is the generational mutations, caused by years and years of wastelanders living and growing up in the wasteland. Caused by radiation yes (wasn't aware this was in dispute).

The only way to be "pure" would to not have been part of this generational mutation. Which would require one to have an ancestry of individuals living in hermetically sealed Vaults or bunkers. I.e. those like the Enclave or the Vault Dwellers.

One of the causes of mutations was radiation, but also FEV floating around on the mainland from West Tek getting blown up. It was a combination of these two that cause the mutations and why the Enclave considers the mainland inhospitable.

Actually it is a dispute of if it is radiation, if it is FEV, if it a mixture of both.

Super Mutants are a combination of High FEV Low Radiation.

Ghouls are assumed High Radiation, No FEV.

Humans must be just "low radiation".

Well sorry, but low radiation will not cause mutation in folk who have access to medical technology. Ie...BoS. Vault City folk


Or, the fact that plenty of people would have NOT come into contact with radiation at all. For example survivors in more rural areas, Vault or not.

Radiation isn't floating around in FO time. NA is formed.from VD and other Vault Dwellers. Unless they decided to swim in irradiated water, it makes no sense that they would be mutated.

Proof?

"Well sorry" doesn't really cut it. All those in Fallout 3 for instance, die from the Modified FEV virus.


Again, its a generational mutation. I wouldn't doubt there is some isolated pockets of wastelanders with a "pure genotype" but they would be few and far between.


Well yeah, because they are Vault Dwellers. They have that "lived in a bunker/vault" ancestry.

The reason everyone is irradiated is because during the war nuclear fallout from the bombs went into the atmosphere basically creating a LOT of background radiation. Point Lookout was never hit, but resulting Nuclear fallout mutated most of the people living there, that's why we have that mutated, inbred redneck army living there.

Yep yep. But that explains only the core region and maybe DC mutations.

People who did not come into contact with that, would not be mutated.

Also, if SM are sterile, then FEV causes sterility in humans. So, even low doses of FEV should cause some sterility. Maybe not 100% like in SM, but somewhat decent.

Again, if i am in say..Montana, far from core region, I'm pure human. Unless I drink green water by the gallon, then I'm just dead. Or a ghoul.

Due to background mutation, yes you probably would turn into a ghoul, and the Enclave considers them a mutation. So if your ghouley self gets caught by the Enclave you know what that means.

Again, I know how radiation works. Which is why you can't say everyone is a mutant caused by radiation if they were protected from said radiation. So, if you were in a Vault or a bunker, otherwise Protected from.radiation, there is no mutation. Period.

Boomers for example who in a vault and eventually leave. Pure.

BoS was protected. Close to pure.

And you say NA people are not mutants, cuz they VD descendants, but Richardson says they are mutants, which is why he full of crap.