.... Not this discussion again. -_-

Well since we're discussing this let me put my 2 cents in before this topic gets locked. If commiting mass murder on your own country to create "Pure Americans" makes you a saintly hero, then I guess the people during the days of the Witch Trials who went around burning, beating, and hanging innocent people as evil witches (something that doesn't exist) should be remembered as heroes too. After all, they wanted to kill mass groups of people over something that was pointless, because the good book tells you that if someone acts a little strange (like a 'witch'), then they're evil and you have every right to roast them, just like the Enclave has the right to execute people who suffer from a little bit of radiation because silly moronic logic says they're all going to be evil murderers.

that doesn't apply, as we're talking a "pure" species as a whole. They didn't discriminate really.

And being impure means you need to die right? Just like being a middle-aged spenster woman who lives alone and doesn't appear to be active in the church means you're an evil witch and need to be executed.

Being "impure" makes you a danger to the long term integrity of the species. Like I said before, small mutations that seem insignificant now could lead to bad things after several generations. They made the hard choice to avoid that but sacrificing those few. For a stronger humanity in the future.

Yeah, but the thing is, not every mutation as a result of radiation is a dangerous threat to humanity. Some of the mutations have actually benifited humanity. Look like at the Brahmin, they've provided meat, leather, milk, and make useful packmules. They were the result of radiation, and if we killed all them off, what are people going to use then? The Enclave doesn't realize that many of the irradiated creatures have become an importaint factor in human survival, and if they killed them all off for "pure" humans, then how would they survive? Humanity needs some of these irradiated creatures, and just because the Enclave thanks they can do without them because of their fancy "technology", doesn't mean they will survive forever. Like say 500 years from Fallout 3, how are they going to get food if they kill off every single irradiated plant and creature?

the FEV weapon doesn't kill plants and animals. Also They did have cows before the war you know. I would also Imagine since the Enclave planned for the Bombs they have all the stuff needed to restart civilization. GECK's to make cities and fertilize and plant, and I would say they have Vaults with animals too.

What is the added benefit of a cow having an additional head? Everything you listed can come from a one headed cow.
Edit: For the record I don't support the enclave or East Coast BOS or Talon Company.

Yeah, you're right! Why eat Brahmin when there's SO MANY regular one-headed cows and other unirradiated animals and plants that are either hiding out in the Wasteland from the main character, or all being kept by the wonderful Enclave until they destroy every irradiated life in the Wasteland, then decide to release them.

P.S. by the way, the Enclave doesn't want to just kill irradiated humans, they want to kill everything that is irradiated.

You missed the point of my question. In your statement, you made it seem as though that a cow growing an additional head was such a huge benefit. But when you break it down, it's just an additional head. Not added meat/milk/resources.

Enclave, hands down.

I won't add to the argument though, not a point in doing it.

No the extra head isn't a what humans rely on (though I think it would be wonderful for animal skull collectors, 2 skulls for the price of one! :thumbsup: ), but the thing is the people in the Wasteland have come to rely on those mutated cows, because there's not a lot of regular cows or livestock left. Pretty much every animal has become irradiated, and most of those animals have become the main source of food for the Wasteland. You can argue that the Enclave has the technology to repopulate the country with normal cows after killing everything irradiated (which I still haven't been convinced is an always bad thing), but that's stretching the lore in the series a bit, isn't it? I highly doubt the Enclave has the ability to make the world exactly the way it was before with no radiation or mutation just because they're American and have great technology.

And sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk, but all I'm trying to do is point out the reasons why killing every irradiated thing in the Wasteland is a bad choice.

That's still is moot, as if there was normal cows instead of Bramhin it would be just the same. It's not really stretching the lore, just think the Enclave planned for the post war they had time to make all the vaults! They had all the resources of the prewar US government to use. they aren't aiming to rebuild the world just America. It was well in there power. It wasn't going to be over night mind you but it was well in there power. They retained all prewar knowledge, have manufacturing capabilities, and had storehouses of equipment they could use. I'm sure they made plans for food somewhere in there. Think of it as going back to the colonization of America a few cities that eventually grows to cover the continent again

Please elaborate.



Neither the Brotherhood of Steel nor New California Republic ever committed mass murder to my knowledge, and this is to say nothing of the governing bodies of single settlements which tend to just want to get by. The only exception would likely be Raider settlements and New Reno.



All dangers except the biggest of all: the Enclave.

Genocide is never an acceptable answer, ever. What gives you the right to play god and decide who lives and who dies? What gives you the right to determine what will or will not make the world a better place? The Enclave doesn't even know the long term consequences of their goals; they're just as ignorant as everyone else about the future. Not once did they think about what effect their poisonous strands of FEV would have on the environment, and future generations. No one can foresee what will happen in a few years, let alone a few centuries.



Wastelanders are human too. So because they have a few strands of modified DNA wastelanders are mutants who are undeserving of life?



No their motivation is made quite clear in Fallout 2: power. America is dead, and the world the Enclave would "rebuild" wouldn't resemble the United States at all. Ever seen a fascist dictatorship up close and personal? That's what the Enclave resembles, and that's ultimately what would become the "new America".



I have no doubt that Richardson actually believed what he was saying, but so do all madmen.

Answers in bold. That's at least how I see them reasoning it out.

Doesn't exposure to radiation kill your reproductive system? If so, how could the people mutated by radiation hurt the gene pool in the future? :blink:

Also being Enclave soldiers are out in the wasteland aren't they considered impure as well? I have worn there suits before, and I can assure you they are NOT radiation proof lol. The Enclave are just as impure as everyone else especially Autumn being he was in that thing with James.

That would be the "minor" variation every one brings up. IF you get ghoulified it's not "minor".

You know, I'm starting to think you don't really support the Enclave, or you're just one of those people that always has to support the thing nobody agrees with just for the sake of being different no matter what, and always having to dig and search for any possibly ways to defend it. I know, because I do that a lot with villain groups and characters too.

I love sitting back and reading these threads, cheering people on in my head.
Interruption over with. Please continue.

who are you cherring for?lol

Haha me too! It's so entertaining. I haven't watched tv in a while, just these enclave vs. lyons gang threads are enough entertainment.

I don't care about either side, so just cheer on whoever makes a good comment or comeback.

Me ofcourse!

Chicken in part yes, I used to love debate class it really makes you think from a different point of view. As we have enough folks screaming there evils I say what the hell I'll try to give it there side.

I think you're confusing police action with murder. The NCR doesn't actively set out to kill people like slavers. There's even slavery pens right outside of the capital because slavery is illegal in the NCR. Do you see the NCR actually killing the guys who own those pens? No. The NCR only uses aggressive force in self defense.



They didn't know the long term consequences of the modified FEV; how could they possibly know? Testing something like that in a controlled environment is one thing, but it's another to have it contaminating the environment for decades and centuries.



I'm well aware of that, but this makes them worth defending how exactly?



I can come to a pretty darn accurate conclusion based on what both Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 presented. There's absolutely no reason to believe that they would have created anything other than a fascist dictatorship. The Enclave's motivations and plans are no secret; they wanted the world, and they'd stop at nothing to get it. They're a 50's pulp sci-fi villainous organization for crying out loud, and what did all of those guys want?

Me still going for Enclave ja? Zey are de best ja?

Heheh yeah, I understand that. Like I'm one of the few people in my school who defended the Confederacy during the American Civil War in History Class. To be honest I could care less about both sides during that war, but I decided the Confederacy needed some support because everybody paints them as the bad guys.

So it's all cool man! :thumbsup: