I know that. I am fine with that. Earlier, I was only referring to Enclave justifiers and supporters of their actions and morals as people I disagree with.

Those people tend to only support them IN GAME. Might be a different story if the Enclave were real. I doubt you'll find any of those people justifying Hitler. That's right, Hitler. This topic was headed in that direction anyway.

I have seen several people justifying them for real.

The mods love you right now. Since now they have a good reason to drool over pressing the lock button. I can see them now, eyes glossed over, gently caressing the lock button, little drops of drool beginning to drop from their mouths.

When someone is debating about the Enclave's actions, Hitler is always brought up.

It's amazing how we gamers go so far over a video game.

Hey, the second somebody uttered the word genocide, this topic was packed, out the door, and had already called the taxi.

:facepalm: Ignore the post about the former fuhrer.

Let's continue on the right path that won't lock down this thread.

Not this again... You know my point of view guys.. And gals.
And no nazis please... It's not cool.

I'd stay for a chat but I slept for the first 5 pages and I gotta go to school now.. Good luck fellow Enclave supporters :nod:

Ahh, I was waiting for your argument.

After all, you were the one who converted me to an Enclave supporter.

Your mind tricks will not work on me, Jedi.

By the way, Pistolero, what is your argument? I wish to attempt to defeat it.

Enclave. I spend most of my days purifying the wastes as well. The BoS are just in it for the Power grab. They use morals to justify their own mass murder. I don't need to Justify mine. I'm a Pissed of Vault Dweller(sort of) who's taking down anything that looks at me funny, cause if I don't it will surly do the same to me one day.

Uh, I got ten minutes before class so better use it.

So,
the general argument against the Enclave is that they want to conduct genocide.
This was true as of 2242, and to an unknown time around 2277 (Autumn says the plan "was abandoned months ago")
Now it's not.
As the Enclave invaded Jefferson Memorial, Autumn was set in control of it. Obviously.
Eden is stuck in Raven Rock, and he wants to use FEV. But alas, Autumn doesn't.
When Autumn defected from the Presidential Faction and founded his own, Autumnist Faction (I call them that. Presidentials support FEV and Autumnist a more humane approach) he was alone left in control of Jeffie.
When you talk to him, he will babble about how "the masses will flock to the Enclave for fresh water, protection and plan for the future!"
You both know someone isn't leaving the room. Why should Autumn lie any more? Besides if he wanted to use FEV he would have done it right after they conquered the place.

That's the pro-Enclave argument number one.

Also, as I have stated many times before, Autumn seems to be blindly loyal to Enclave's official cause: restoring order and the country. Eden focuses on removing the problems, while Autumn wants to convert them into his flock. Autumn does, for one, constantly refer to the Enclave as the United States, unlike Eden.

For me, that tells that Autumn is on the right path. He has seen what the Wasteland's like. Afterall, he likely served in Navarro back in California with his father as he obviously survived the blast of '42. Not to mention the trek across the Wastes.


For Enclave itself (got only two minutes, bear with me), as I have stated numerous times before it is, with NCR, the only faction with considerable industrial base. As NCR is in California and ran by wastelanders, well, I don't see it coming to D.C. anytime soon.
The Pitt? Please.

BoS is not even worth of mentioning when it comes to running economy let alone rebuilding something other than Citadel's broken wing.

Considering a nineteen year old could wipe both of them out without too much worry, I have little respect for either, I support Ashure mostly, but since that;s not a choice, I put Enclave as they are capable of manufacturing new weapons, armour and ammo.

I rarely hear that from Enclave supporters. Autumn still treats wastelanders like dirt, but that is much more humane than Eden's approach. However, Autumn is more of an exception to the Enclave as a whole. The Enclave's plan was based around the use of the FEV officially. Besides, wandering the wastes still reveals genocidal tendencies by the Enclave. While Autumn opposed the use of FEV, Eden supported it. If Eden truly is the president, he must have also had followers. We know Richardson's Enclave supported FEV usage as well. The Enclave's history remains shady and immoral, even with Autumn's opposition of FEV usage. Autumn was a small exception who still murdered.

Very good argument sir. And this is why I'm pro enclave.

Yeah go Ashur! :thumbsup:

The Enclave. Given the choice I would have happily betrayed the BOS and sided with the Enclave.

Given the choice I would start my own organization, stock up on rockets, rocket launchers and any other explosives around. Then destroy the Citadel on top of Lyons' gang. :hehe:

I find it funny that the only people who support the Enclave are hardcoe patriots who compare Fallout to real life or newbies who like the armour and whatever they found on a dead Enclave soldier.
I forgot that some people also like the Enclave because they find Autumn attractive or something along those lines.

I think I'll stick with the BoS.

Autumn's methods are indeed questionable and yes, Enclave officially supports using FEV but the point is that it is no longer a valid plan because it won't happen. Even if Enclave won the Purifier battle, Autumn would just send someone to punch in the code and they'd have water for all.

The good side in Enclave's post-war (post-war as in if Enclave won) execution would be that they have vastly more resources to transport water around.
The destruction of Ghouls is indeed sad but a regular Wastelander, under Autumnist rule would be in pretty good conditions. While oppressed maybe, they would be free of Supermutants as Enclave can focus all its energy in the most important things while BoS has to fight in multiple fronts.

For BoS itself again, it totally failed in the post-BS operations. BoS's watery operations not only resulted in loss of civilian lives, many dead Rivet City guards and even water ending up in Raider/Griffon's hands. It also appears that some cities don't even get water supplies, like Canterbury Commons, as the caravans keep getting massacred by dangers. They even lost a caravan in Andale.

Again I'm sorry for a brief post but I have to go to class.

You do bring up a valid point, but what proof do we have that the Enclave would have been better? Autumn's methods are still harsh, but he doesn't follow the Enclave's traditional plan. In the same sense that Lyon's detachment doesn't represent the BoS, I would say Autumn doesn't represent the Enclave. If these discussions are to be about the Enclave, then their plot can't be ignored. Autumn is a completely different story. I see Autumn as truly of pure intentions, but he still goes about it too harshly. Regardless, in the end, Autumn either dies or wanders off never to be heard from again. The Enclave is a brutal group. The soldiers follow their leader obediently and without question, not truly seeming to understand what it is they are doing. Autumn's soldiers were most likely limited within the Enclave. He could have taken control, but still would have been too harsh and would have become distant enough from the tradtitional Enclave's plans that he and his group could not be considered the traditional, shadow government Enclave. The Enclave was behind the Great War and the Vault Experiments. the true Enclave should not be permitted the title of heroes, but neither should the BoS. The wasteland doesn't actually have many heroes, but if the CW did, it would be the Lone Wanderer and James, but not the Enclave and not the BoS. The true BoS are definitely not good, but neither are the Enclave. They are opposing forces, but neither is truly capable of accomplishing what they want.

Why don't these polls ever have a Neither option?

I don't know.

Its even at the moment.