Well everything you say is one way of looking at things. The base a Navaro, unlike the oil rig, was NOT destroyed. It was temporarily depopulated. There's no reason that other Enclave forces couldn't reactivate it afterward. Besides Navarro, the Enclave installation that ED-E was sent from indicates that the Enclave had additional installations scattered about. (You wouldn't put all your operation in CA, and then decide it was useful to have ONE other base in the Midwest just to do Eyebot construction and distribution ..... unless there were other bases just as widely scattered about.

And what I was trying to say was "the current Enclave candidate wanting to be proclaimed President of the United States", but that seemed like a lot of typing when I thought people would be bright enough to understand what I meant. Apparently I was making an erroneous assumption.

I am literally referencing what is stated in the games. All of the Enclave are from the Oil Rig.

It was attacked and looted by the NCR. Why wouldn't they keep people there? Also Navarro wasn't even anything that special, it wasn't a specially constructed government facility like Raven Rock or the Oil Rig. It was a Poseidon Energy Oil Refinery that the Enclave just co-oped as a forward operating base for the mainland.

ED-E was sent from Adams Air Force Base, the facility occupied by the Enclave forces that made their way to Washington D.C. from the Oil Rig. Your assuming that the Chicago outpost is something that has existed since the Great War, like you seemed to have thought that Raven Rock was. It could very easily just be something that the Enclave built on their way to Raven Rock.


"President" alone would have sufficed.

Fact of the matter is nothing suggests that there was anyone remaining to assume the Office of the President after the destruction of Raven Rock and that the existence of EHC would suggest otherwise.

If any such Enclave bases had existed then why didn't the remnants in Broken Steel go their instead of getting slaughtered by Liberty Prime? Or why didn't the Remnants from New Vegas go to these bases if there was one closer than Raven Rock (which is over 3000 miles away).

From President Eden:


After the war, the remnants of the government regrouped on the Oil Rig to become the Enclave that we have seen in-game.

I remember a line from a movie I saw years ago: "It may be that you learned everything you know from me, but I didn't teach you everything _I_ know." Similarly, it may be that everything we saw at the oil rig was Enclave, but it wasn't everything that the Enclave had. The Oil Rig was the Enclave HQ, located as Eden said, on the West Coast. But from "the decades following the war" to 2077 is a couple of centuries. And the Enclave was, after all, what remained of the US Government. If anyone was in a position to know where EVERY government-controlled installation was located, and ALL of the passcodes needed to enter those facilities, and how to tap in to the government communications channels that linked every base and facility, it would be the Enclave. Put yourself in their shoes: what would you do during those intervening years? It seems obvious to me that when the radiation dropped low enough, seek out and search bases and installations to see if they were still usable.

It may have been that the Oil Rig had some limited R&D capability, but it certainly did NOT have the capability of manufacturing those high-tech Power Armor suits that were so prevalent in FO2 and FO3. And that kind of manufacturing requires A LOT of raw materials to produce that many units. The Vertibirds may very well just been taken out of mothballs, but those suits were definitely higher tech than anything that was available before the war. And those kinds of manufacturing and resource gathering facilities were clearly not in evidence at either the Oil Rig or Navarro. So if not there, where? And if there are other sites not mentioned in FO2 or FO3, then why not A LOT of other sites, all ruled from the Oil Rig? (Until it went kaboom.)

As for why the Enclave personnel fought to the end in Broken Steel, well, they were soldiers. And soldiers that perceived themselves as patriots as well. They followed their orders, fighting to the end against people they perceived as little more than neo-barbarians. While they fought on, the Enclave High Command was trying to sort out who would be in overall command (someone that unified rather than caused schisms) and formulating plans to accomplish their long-term goal of resurrecting the US of A -- provided it was a US of A that the Enclave controlled.

[Historical esoterica: If you ever had the chance to see the translated archives of the USSR concerning orders that were issued to the forces inside Stalingrad, you would see how it is that the Enclave soldiers would literally die fighting "to the last man, to the last bullet." Surrender and retreats were simply NOT options. In contrast, the German's "will fight to the last man, the last bullet" wasn't adhered to quite so well. Between the two sides, we can see the full range of human commitment to a goal. (Whether that commitment was self-generated, or "motivated" by The Powers That Be.)]

Poorly made lies and misinformation that numerous people on these forums have already disproven. BoS isn't going around shouting "I AM THE MASTER RACE, ALL MUTANTS ARE ILLEGAL AND ARE TO DIE" and trying to commit mass genocide on everyone because they think their "superior" or "pure". BoS are trying to eliminate super mutants, ferals and synths because they're nothing but threats to everyone.


What are you talking about? The NCR and BoS completely took over Navarro and destroyed it.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Navarro

Navarro is dead, it's gone. The NCR didn't take it and just say "Ok so you can have this back" to the Enclave


They had the means to produce power armor on the Oil Rig. There is no dancing around that, they clearly had the means. The Oil Rig was built for the Enclave to escape to during the war, it wasn't just "Oh we need somewhere to hide and it's convenient" it was literally prepped to be their version of a vault. They fought so hard at Adams Air Force Base because that's all they had left. They lost the Oil Rig, they lost Navarro, they lost Raven Rock and Adams Air Force base was their last hope, their last home. It's entirely more likely the soldiers would just give up. A majority of their population was destroyed with most of the force sent into the east following suit.

The Enclave is dead, the outposts in Chicago are outposts not giant bases or complexes that will most likely fall because they lost all contact with other Enclave. At most the outposts is manned by two squads but not an entire army and the remnants of the Enclave on the east coast would LITERALLY have no way to contact them or get to Chicago without alerting the ECBoS and this is assuming the ECBoS hasn't already eradicated all the Enclave remnants and actively hunt them down.

The BoS aren't too much different however, they don't plainly announce that they want to commit a genocide, but they are in fact doing it regardless. As some others have said, their ideology is not far from wiping things out. A perfect candidate could be the Vault Dweller (hence fallout 4). But even as an added DLC faction, they could be a remnant of a little different idealogy, perhaps not so "evil" as you call it.

Either way, it could be just like the Dawn Guard DLC from Skyrim in my opinion. Plenty of mods for the other Fallout games (For the Enclave is a big one, and very very amazing if no one has seen it). I just think it'd be a great idea.

Okay well, as far as this goes, they pretty much do announce they want to kill everything and everyone that isn't human, or relatively human, they don't even like sentient ghouls. So as far as I'm concerned, most of the BoS just wants to wipe out anybody that isn't relatively human, and whoever doesn't follow their idealogy.





And how is everyone so CERTAIN that Chicago is left in dust and destroyed? I don't believe that at all, and no sane person would just assume that it's destroyed, it was never confirmed, and there is still a high command somewhere in existence.

I love the enclave as much as the next person but we could really use a new antagonist. I mean did any of the "Reds" survive the nuclear war? Coming back to finish what they began would make for an amusing dlc if not a game of it's own.

You know, that's very true, I just love the Enclave, and I really do feel like Bethesda did not give them a true chance at being an actual faction to join and get to know deeper, perhaps if there is a new leader, that's less "genocidal." But that could be the other faction! 2 factions come into the Commonwealth (or you travel somewhere else, vice-versa), and you have a chance to join either one of them. I just think it'd be a great turn of events. Plus they have an X-01 piece of armor in the game (which EVERYONE LOVES by the way, not even crediting the Enclave), I know it might not mean much, but it already could make sense for them to enter.


Perhaps the other faction could be the Reds of some sort, or a group of raiders like the Khans (for the more sadistic of us inside).

Well now our goal is to find out where this high command is, and if they will reveal themselves anytime soon. Perhaps the 10 years after the events of Fallout 3 they've reorganized somewhere else. Maybe I am just being ignorant.

Never underestimate the ability of authors to create sequels after what looks like an absolute and definitive THE END. There are innumerable examples where Great Evils that were patently vanquished have returned from the shadows in the next volume... and the next, and the next and the one after that. No sooner do advocates claim "They can't do that because ______" then new chapters appear with explanations of just why they could.

I've already suggested this in several different forms in several different topics but I might as well suggest it again. My idea for Enclave would be to return as a minor faction, occupying a bunker or a vault with a small town/outpost on the surface. With all their setbacks, a surviving group would just be trying to survive with a more "live and let live" attitude. Not letting anyone in, but not leaving the place either. Player could either leave them be, destroy them or even help them.

The Brotherhood only kills people who are a threat to the people. There is no reasoning with super mutants or ferals and they leave non-hostile ghouls alone. Saying "Oh they're just Nazis" is downright wrong and nothing but straw grasping BS.



Because they're outposts. They're not SUPER MEGA ULTRA FORTRESS OF GLORIOUS AMERICA they're outposts that could be dead since they're severed from the entire Enclave because the entire Enclave IS DEAD

If America was to actually die that doesn't mean a place like Thule Air Base or Shemya Island will become the new last hope for the glorious American government. It's straw grasping at best, most outposts aren't even designed to be self-efficient even if they are remote out of the way areas which compared to their location from the West coast and east coast they would make them very remote with the only possible way to get to them being vertibird or a several month hike.

You Black Isle/Obsidian [censored] are quite funny at times... Fo3 and Fo4 "semi-canon"... LoL

Yes precisely! There is more than what is just above the surface, and no one truly knows of their existence except for us, so for all anyone knows, there is probably a massive base there. Perhaps there isn't, but no one has heard any word about them, but as you said, groups come back, even if they seemed completely destroyed.


If you guys don't believe that, go watch Star Wars Episode VII, the first order is a perfect example.


That also isn't such a bad idea, considering that their number aren't as big as they once were, there are still the elite, or the loyalists left, keeping to themselves, maybe hiding in bunkers across the states. That would be an interesting concept.

There is one Chicom in game, but he just wants to get back home.

Nothing is canon until it is referenced in another game (or official publication or media). Since no ending of Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas or Fallout 4 has been referenced in another title yet it is not canon. Black Isle used to always go with the "good" ending as canon, we have yet to see which side of the line, if any, Bethesda will lay canon on.

Edit: punctuation

LOL... all the people saying the Enclave is dead have obviously never played Fallout 3. Elder lions says that he wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave later on returns... The Enclave is not dead get over it.

What a compelling argument.

There is a pretty big gap between "lets kill all hostile enemies in the wasteland and prevent technology from getting out of hand again"(BOS) and "Lets kill everything in the wasteland because they are not pure"(Enclave).

The only problem with the BOS is they sometimes think none feral ghouls are feral ghouls, they are slow to embrace new ways of thinking and their methods are bit extreme at times.

Semi-canon means that the major events are a part of the history of the Fallout universe and that the details of exactly what happened are unknown.

The only way a game in the Fallout series becomes fully canon is when in one or more subsequent games, we receive that information.

What is the canon ending for Fallout? Did the Vault Dweller save his vault or did he destroy it? Was Tandi rescued from the raiders? Did Shady Sands survive the raiders and super mutants? We got almost all of the answers from Fallout 2.

What is the canon ending for Fallout 2? Where did we find that information? We got a few tidbits of information from Fallout 3, but it was Fallout: NV that made Fallout 2 fully canon instead of semi-canon.

What do we know about Fallout Tactics? Almost nothing. Subsequent games only acknowledge a Brotherhood presence in the Midwest.

What do we know about Fallout 3? The presence of the Elder Maxson and the East Coast Brotherhood tells us that the Lone Wanderer did not fire the missiles at the Citadel. There are computer entries that tell us that Elder Owen Lyons died and was succeeded by his daughter and soon after she died in combat. And we know that MacCready was not captured by slavers or eaten by super mutants when he got tossed out of Little Lamplight. That is pretty much all we know about what is canon in Fallout 3 and it is not enough to raise it above semi-canon.

Officially, what happened in Boston with the Railroad, Institute, Brotherhood of Steel and the Minutemen? Until a subsequent game comes out and tells us who survived and who destroyed whom, Fallout 4 will languish in a semi-canon state.

I believe Fallout 3 has a set canon. Isn't it mentioned on a computer Elder Lyon died and Sarah became elder before dying in battle shortly after? And Mora Brown rights a book about the LW tens years after he/she leaves DC(ten years after Fallout 4 I think). I would assume that mean the LW didn't go along with Eden plan because Mora and others are still alive and Sarah didn't die in the Broken Steel DLC or active the Water Purifier. I would assume Megaton is still around as well.

The Moira Brown stuff is from one of the editions of the official Fo3 game guide. It is quoted on www.falloutwiki.com and mentions Simms' son as sheriff of Megaton, and a quote from him along the lines of "the Lone Wanderer saved the town, even if it cost my father's life", suggesting the canon is that the LW gave Burke away to Simms, Burke shot Simms, but the LW disarmed the bomb.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new faction pop up out of the wreckage of the Enclave. Something like a unit from the East that escaped and settled somewhere and grew. So in F5, if it say 20-30 years after the defeat at Adams AF base The New Enclave (working title) would have created a settlement in Southern Virginia/North Carolina and have grown to be a force in that area. They would still have some of the ideological views of the Enclave but also created some new ideology. Less genocidal but still very bigoted and still trying to restore the USA under their leadership.

This is quite the overstatement. Willow, the sentry at Underworld (Museum of History) in FO3 calls the BoS a-words because they routinely take pot shots at the Underworld ghouls, despite the fact that pretty much everyone in the Capitol Wasteland knows that Underworld is inhabited by non-feral ghouls. Also in FO3, we met the Outcasts, who were essentially BoS purists that felt that Lyons had gone soft by choosing to help non-BoS people. (See Operation Anchorage.) Note that between Lyons and the Outcasts, it is Lyons (and those who follow him) who is painted as a BoS renegade. So much so that he mentions that essentially "They no longer return my calls." (That is, he and his chapter were no longer in communication with the rest of the BoS organization.)

The current version of Brotherhood of Steel acts like the Enclave. Kind of like they infiltrated the BoS.