There's not too much difference between the Enclave and FO4 BoS at the moment...pretty much only to do with the level of 'purity' in humanity.

Sort of like how Hydra usurped S.H.I.E.L.D. in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? It would be the smart thing for the Enclave to do. (On the East Coast, anyway. West Coast they would need to infiltrate the NCR. MUCH easier to do imho.)

No they don't. Enclave had a whole racial purity thing going on, BoS don't. Enclave set up forced labor camps, BoS don't. Enclave would capture wastelanders, BoS don't. Enclave forced experimentation on captured people, BoS don't. Enclave wanted to commit mass genocide of anything even close to mutation including people that looked human, BoS don't.


Again, wrong. Pay attention to how the BoS talk, it's not about purity it's about the fact that super mutants and ferals are actively killing people. This is also ignoring the fact that BoS doesn't attack Goodneighbor, BoS doesn't attack Strong if they see him and the BoS don't attack Nick if they see him. They only attack HOSTILE forces because they are HOSTILE not some purity bullcrap which you're spewing.


This is NOT an overstatement. Willow was in an active warzone WITH THREE PARTIES TRYING TO TAKE OVER. Trench warfare is not a street hockey game, you don't just yell "CAR" and all people stop fighting to let you pass. Stray fire WILL HAPPEN. Even Willow will tell the character they're nothing but pot shots so YEA likely case it's stray bullets or the fact that she could appear as a unidentifiable shadow on the horizon.

Lyons was a renegade because he abandoned his mission of trying to find tech in favor of only helping people. That's why the Outcasts were pissed, not because he was helping people but because he wasn't doing anything to find technology like their original goal was. At the time of 3 there was only one team of BoS trying to find technology and it was nothing but a punishment assignment to find books. The team that did it was one scribe and two knights, the scribe herself will say it was nothing but a futile attempt. This is why Maxson's chapter is successful, because he mixes finding tech AND helping people instead of Lyons who felt one should be abandoned for the other. If anything Maxson is improving on Lyons's goals.

Again your ignorance and straw grasping shows.


Wow this is just, wow. No the Enclave didn't do this and yes this stupid theory is the most straw grasping thing. The NCR destroyed most of the Enclave in the west with the oil rig and navarro and THEN actively hunted down Enclave members. Arcade and the remnants you see in New Vegas were the only survivors and they got away because they left the NCR's territory.

Even with the sponsorship program the Enclave wouldn't even be able to infiltrate the BoS to the point they can change it, most would still either be recruits or knights. This is assuming any survived, you know, Raven Rock and the Enclave mobile base destruction and weren't hunted down to complete extermination.

Seriously, stop with your straw grasping and conspiracy theories that are laughable. The BoS aren't the Enclave, the BoS aren't like the Enclave and all evidence you brought up is straw grasping at best and shows clear ignorance of the BoS. Seriously, stop Godwin Lawing the BoS, it's become so annoying due to numerous inaccuracies that even the mods are getting tired of it. We can godwin the Enclave because for all intents from everything we've seen with the Enclave they are 100% Nazi-esque and this is all proven in 2 and 3.

I liked the Enclave when they seemed like a powerful badass enemy, but they've been brought back and anhillated so many times they just seem pathetic now.

If they get brought back and obviously get killed AGAIN then I'm going to feel like a bully picking on the poor little Enclave.

I'm very glad that Bethesda isn't so close minded and that stubborn as Cider! and Hamish999.

You don't like the Enclave, yeeess we get it. Now instead of being selfish and not say something constructive for everyone because you just want the Enclave dead, we could have a random important threat and you have to choose a new faction to deal with it, so that way you're not forced to kill Enclave soldiers (again) because let's face it : the way Bethesda portrayed them in FO3 was basically just like they're some villain from a Disney movie and mainly because I suppose they didn't have any inspiration to create new and interesting threats.

So if Enclave come back with other factions to deal with a threat or something, everyone could be pleased, and from a dev perspective if you want to sell DLCs they have to appeal to as much people as they can.

Something like Mothership Zeta wouldn't be interesting for me, I just find the fact of using a random easter egg as full DLC about aliens is dumb (for me they shouldn't be in the Fallout universe at all), it's like Blizzard and their panda easter egg made into a full expansion Kung-fu Panda. It was also one of the worst expansions along with the next one. If they have to make a DLC it better have variety and choices or it won't sell much. Vanilla game is already limited in terms of important and meaningful choices.

So you see the best is to give people options and things they would like. Because at the end of the day, it's not only about what YOU want or think things should be. It's about people enjoying their game.

Except Enclave has always been a villain, they were never written as anything else. In Fallout 2 they were literally wasteland nazis. They did everything Nazis did. They tried to literally kill the entire world except them with an altered FEV virus. The Enclave, by nature and philosophy, is an antagonistic group that is not interested in helping or living with other people at all, to them anyone who isn't an Enclave member is impure and deserves to be purged.

They've never been anything other then a villain.

It is indeed... it is clear that Bethesda intends the Enclave to come back weather you like it or not based on that quote... thats really all you need.

Please no more Enclave, they have cool power armor and an awesome final boss (FO2) but they're done. I don't know why Bethesda just had to bring back super mutants in such numbers for FO4, or for that matter put feral ghouls all over the place (though I love their redesign). They created something new with the Institute (who function as join-able villains this time around, not quite as cruel as the Enclave but utterly ruthless nonetheless). I also appreciate the new direction of the BOS, moving from a cult of fools to a functioning cult of fools. Maybe eventually they'll bother to create a real government, but at least they continue to be entertaining enemies.

Bethesda does not need to just rehash the same stuff over and over again. Fallout offers an incredible setting that could go in a myriad of directions. For example the Legion in FONV: What's not to love about a massive army of sophisticated and ruthless raiders? What about a different strain of mutants? Think of intelligent centaurs, or some similarly monstrous creature (maybe they could make them benevolent!) Fallout isn't just about the Enclave, super mutants, and the Brotherhood of Steel. In fact, it doesn't need to include any of these to be a fantastic Fallout game.

This^

Added to the fact that they have been utterly destroyed on the West Coast and the East Coast, several times in there various incarnations.

The fact that they wont recruit from the impure wasteland population means that there can only be a very few small pockets left of them. As we saw in F:NV.

I get why people like them and want to be able to ally with them. But at this point in the Fallout timeline there just isn't an Enclave left.

Or maybe he was talking about the one squad-manned Enclave outposts that dot the capital wasteland. You know the ones the BoS could easily eradicate by finding them with their newly acquired vertibirds, the outposts that were already getting wiped out by super mutants, raiders, BoS patrols and numerous other residents of the capital wastelands.

Enclave lost most of it's population, most of it's fighting force, so yea it's likely the Enclave are completely dead.

Maxson getting bored in the Capital Wasteland and looking for another land to conquer makes it clear and canon that the Enclave in FO3 has lost.

stop making excuses... he clearly talk about them regrouping in force to invade and talks about the stragglers in a different sentence... sorry but the Enclave are still alive somewhere and clearly capable of sending reinforcements and invading again... you don't get to twist the lore just because you don't like it...

from where? There aren't any known loaction where they are strong enough to send reinforcements. At least from what we know atm.

Who knows from where? Based on Elder Lyons dialogue it is likely they will send reinforcments and i don't see Lyons talking from his butt... the Enclave is still alive... get over it...

It's fine no worry. But sorry to say Lyons is dead, these battles are fought.

And yet they didn't counter attack or send reinforcements to save the mobile crawler in AAFB which is a rather important bit of tech. They haven't even reappeared in the 10 years time between 3 and 4! They don't seem to even be known about in Boston and as the BoS now is far stronger than it was in 3 it would be idiotic to try and attack now.

Lyons didn't know much about them, he didn't even know they had that size force in DC. Bethesda left it open and we do know the Enclave has at least 1 "base" left in Chicago and with the existing lore (retreating from the Oil rig and Nav. to Raven Rock after that battle) it's a good chance they retreated to Chicago which has no reason to come in to Boston.

From what I've read on this topic, you like to read between the lines without putting much thought in your reply to make your point.

I said like a Disney villain, meaning : pure evil without much logic. Often, none. They're just there so we can see heroes doing good.

If you ever really played NV/FO3 and talked to Colonnel Autumn he makes so much more sense than the super computer, and seems much more reasonnable, Colonnel Autumn himself is against the use of the modified FEV and against Eden too. Problem is, most player just don't care and go Call of Pigeon mode. No wonder why FO4 lost many RPG aspects.

Also a lot of Enclave members aren't the evil guys some of you think, most of them weren't even aware of the genocide stuff. I can't recall his name but there's a character in the old games that you can tell about the atrocities of the Enclave and he reacts. Proving that not all of them are aware of the real goals of the leadership. It's like the Institute : majority of good/decent people but very bad leadership hiding nasty stuff.

And since you like to talk about nazis, do you think every german was a nazi and fervent follower of Hitler because they lived in Germany that was back in the day led by nazis? Of course not.

I'm not saying Enclave members are all angels, but for once it would be freaking good to have them on a more grey side and be able to join. And this is the thing : they wouldn't be the all evil faction Bethesda wanted them to be in FO3.

And I really don't see how it would affect you if in a DLC they are a joinnable faction, since you or any other player have the choice to do it or not. Why do you want to restrict players ? It's counter-productive. If you've been paying attention, there are many many topics on various forums suggesting for a DLC featuring the return of the Enclave with new ideas and goals, and the DLC doesn't have to be centered around them either. People are just asking for a change.

Who says anything about them going to Boston... isn't this conversation about if they are alive or not?? It is quite clear to me that Bethesda who writes the lore now weather you like or not intends that the Enclave is still alive.

Unless they in the southeast I don't know where else they could be in big numbers. The BoS, NCR and Legion run everything else and would have likely killed them off by now.

The last thing I want to see is another 'rewarming of the leftovers' that is the Enclave. They are dead, let them go.

It would be less of an eye rolling event for Caesar's Legion to return, having migrated across the continent, to invade the Commonwealth.

Now, as a sop, to you poor Enclave lovers, I could see a new faction, founded by a former Enclave member developing into a new power. This would be similar to what Ashur did with The Pitt. But I would only want it if Bethesda will make them joinable and give them better depth than was given to Caesar's Legion.

Also, comparing the Eastern BOS to the Enclave is like comparing Oranges to a song about possibly visiting Washington state when the Apple trees are in bloom.

Especially considering the bulk of their 1000 members were killed off in Fallout 2, while in Fallout 3 it stated that the majority of their surviving members went East to Raven Rock where they were basically annihilated.

I say annihilated because I doubt Maxson would just up and leave D.C. if the Super Mutants and Enclave weren't already culled to insignificant numbers.

If there is a high command that we haven't already killed off, then their numbers would be inconsequential at best. They would need to rely on robots and guerrilla warfare to do anything.

Sorry but just because you don't want the Enclave to reappear doesn't mean you get to twist the lore and say they are dead when i just clearly proved they are still alive.

They have an outpost in Chicago so they could easily have outpost and bases in other parts to and will probably rebuild.

Yet it is stated in Fallout 3 that they will probably send reinforcments. The Enclave could easily make a breeding program or take some fresh people from a vault.

Just because you want the "Enclave to reappear doesn't mean you get to twist the lore". They've been absolutely slaughtered 6+ times already between two games. Even Team Rocket got replaced a few times.

I'm not about to repeat myself when it's already in this thread, but the Enclave had around 1000 members which have been almost entirely killed off. They don't take in outsiders at all. They've made a point of slaughtering Vault Dwellers and using them in experiments before. I can't imagine a handful of people breeding enough to create a sustainable military force that could oppose NCR, Legion, BoS, Institute, etc. etc.

Say there are 50 remaining Enclave members (being very generous too) and each member raised 10 children, you're still left with a population that is half that of the one present in Fallout 2. I dunno where they'd be getting the resources to raise and train a new population that is 10x their own either. They do not have the numbers, resources, ideology, etc. to become a threat. They're dead and gone aside from very small numbers as evidenced by prior games (including Fallout 4).

No, no you didn't. One line of dialogue does not make it so. Until they turn up in a future release the Enclave are dead. Everything the player has experienced through 6 Fallout games says so.

Could they be shoehorned back in if Bethesda wish so? Of course they can. But everything to date says the Enclave have been all but wiped from the face of the Earth (bar a few small outposts). Would take a pretty big MacGuffin to bring them back from the dead though.

On a separate note when exactly did Elder Lyons say said line? Was it before or after broken Steel?

I'm guessing you don't know much about history... armies are often deafeted in multiple battles and campaigns before dying out. Also they will often change ideals fast in the name of continuity... (just look at how the germans tried to use women as soldiers near the end of world war 2) and thus may consider vault dwellers to be pure humans so they recruit them and make them breed... Also stop it with the Enclave only had 1000 troops fallacy... that was at the oil rig they have more installations scattered throughout the Wasteland (as evidenced in New Vegas and Fallout 3)... you can shout "I DONT WANT THE ENCLAVE TO RETURN THEY ARE DEAD" all you want but that wont change the lore... also why are you even on a Bethesda forums?? i saw that you clearly stated you dont like Bethesda Fallout games on another thread so you should just go to NMA and get your ego pat and affirmations there...