Oh great, now you guys are arguing about Pixels vs Reality? And some of you were the ones talking about how our debate was getting silly. At least we were staying on topic, or I was.

Were yelling at each other about the Enclave. Nothing new.

:clap:

We has a winner! What would you like your prize in?

A) Death

B) Death

C) Death

D) Death by spoon

;)

Secret choice E by Exesprate) Death by spork!

Silly? Our entire argument has been focused on the things going on IN THE GAME. Real people aren't dying in the game. PIXELS are. So yes, it's going to be MUCH easier to support them when people aren't dying. How is this silly again? I think it's called "logic". Most of "you" seem to have the idea that we would 100% support real life actions such as this. I'm telling you this isn't the case.


Wait wait, how was this conversation about real life anyway? We're on a VIDEO GAME forum, talking about a VIDEO GAME faction, in a VIDEO GAME.


@Francois: What about Death By Spork?

Is nobody listening to this guy? He's right you know.

@Exesprate: Death by spork! Yes! Why didn't I think of it?

Spoon? I don't even know how that's possible. B will be fine.

True that. *sage nod*

You know what this makes me think of?
It makes me think things would probably go down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI6E13pkvaw. At least from 2:00 onward.


...Never gets old. >.>

Wheeeee thread derailing! : D

Hey man, you misunderstand me. I don't personally care what your opinion is either way, planet earth is [censored] up right now. Corruption everywhere, lack of information everywhere, we've got Africa, stupidity is running rampant, China, no one knows the truth to anything anymore and everyone is wasteful and there is 7 billion of us on earth and we still can't figure out cold fusion... Yeap! We are so on the fast track to success in reality!

Like I said, if I were stuck in a post apocalyptic setting I'd seek to join the commonwealth, or rather, the Institute. If they deemed me unworthy, I'd then off myself with my last 10mm round..

But if they let me in (probably as some form of highly expendable body guard, hey, at least they feed me. or augment me so I don't need to eat or sleep anymore) i'd be like,



"F you man! We have ANDROIDS! A-N-D-R-O-I-D-S! I don't give a [censored]!" <------ My catchphrase in the wasteland, to the moral people. But that's just me.

I said OUR debate, you know the one about whether or not the Enclave is evil. Not yours...

Edit: And sorry I didn't really read the rest of your post. Arguing about whether or not you'd support actions of factions in the game if they were in real life seems pretty stupid, pointless and boring to me.

I am SO sigging that!

No no, they are much to rare. How about Death by Bent Tin Can? Gruesom! :cookie:

I seem to have been involved in that debate since it started, thanks. I've gone through AT LEAST 10 of these threads since the year started. Same old song. Except now I'm telling you our ACTUAL point of view.

When we answer the question "Do you think the Enclave is evil?" This logic goes through our heads:

Enclave > Video Game > People dying? Pixels dying > Pixels = not real > Enclave Evil> Do I think they're cool? > Yes. >Enclave Evil? > No.

Or at least through my head. We're not some hive mind, so that's probably just my logic. Other people probably have different logic. But I KNOW our thoughts are similar.


EDIT: Since that logic doesn't cover everything, when I argue stuff like "Autumn didn't kill people" and seem to be getting really involved, I'm looking at it gamewise/logic wise. What would Autumn do if he was in power? Lessee.... Take control of the purifier... give it to the wastelanders to gain their trust... probably treat them like a little more than dirt... have control of the wasteland. I see no genocide to be honest. So that's why I answer "No" in cases like that. Now if it were real people being treated like dirt, sure, yeah, they're evil, why not. But they're not. I don't know. My mind is a pretty confusing place. Ask somebody else :[ Or at least ask me tomorrow when I'm not sick/tired.

It'd be best to ignore all that and think that we support the In Game Enclave. Plain and simple.

There, that works.

This Thread has now become so off-topic it is not funny... Mods?

this is a debate between logic and ideals, the enclave are faced with the same problems as anyone else in the wasteland, and what was the main issue for the war: too many humans, not enough space or resources. logic says that your army would care for itself. since the enclave got a bad rep with brotherhood, they cant get help, heres why:

brotherhood want tech, the enclave have tech but dont wanna give it up, they dont trust the brotherhood with weapons like that, its too easy for them to disband (outcasts) and go around with super powerful tech rauaging the wasteland disrupting their progress. now you see why the enclave dont trust people in the wasteland? they would take advantage of soldiers that have not been on the outside for 200 years. they would just like it if people minded their business and left em alone.

ideals say that they are killing people who are on the same level as them, this is a debatable fact. the enclave have come to do their work when all of a sudden they are shot at and attacked for no reason, who is evil now? the enclave couldnt just say we're here to help, people are so divided already. if they took a side, everyone else would probably hate them more and they would be drawn into a war they didnt start. that would disrupt progress, its the same situation that the brotherhood of steel is stuck in at DC.

the brotherhood decided to help one or two towns(something that never happened in california, look where that got them) now everyone expects help immediately and the brotherhood is forced to stay and take a side, emotion got in the way of logic. rather than help them all by focusing on the ruins, they are forced to help the people in a futile fight with themselves, they already have lost quite a few people to the outcasts, and super mutants tear at their progress, and there they stay in their citadel, running low on morale, weapons, and people.

the enclave tried, but they failed...any other questions?

Why do you need to make it literal like that? Who here didn't think we were talking about a video game. Of course they aren't evil in reality because they aren't real. That's kind of obvious. We're talking about their actions being evil considering the fact that yes this is a video game. Of course you can argue that every single video game villain isn't evil with the logic being "because they don't exist durr" but why?

hilarious! especially the way I read it!

Well, I can't answer for EDEN supporters, but my logic for autumn is in my edit. I see him more like Dark gray. I just don't have a black and white mind. Most stuff for me is neutral. Again, you're just getting my thoughts and my thoughts don't go for everybody. Best person to talk to is Pistolero. Bring up this whole "Why do you think that" question. He's got a good bit figured out.

But my thoughts on the Enclave:
Richardson's Enclave:
Dark Gray-Black
EDEN's Enclave:
Black
Autumn's Enclave:
Dark Gray

In my experience I've only met a couple who truly thought they fit "White". Which I guess is another reason for "No" answers. Gray isn't evil.

Overall:
Gray

and does anyone have ANY other reasons they THINK the enclave is evil? if you want to be a realist, your barking up the wrong thread in the land of virtual reality and role playing.

??????? I do not understand how morals change just because it is a game. The question is are they evil, and my idea of evil doesn't change between the real world and a game world. I'm confused.

It changes because we're not dealing with real things. There's a MAJOR difference between pixels dying, and real people dying. Pixel genocide doesn't affect me much emotionally. "No wastelanders were hurt in the making of this game". You're thinking much too realistically. I mean realism can be good, especially if you're a roleplayer, but too much can be too much.

Evil is relative anyway. What makes something evil is that it doesn't fit the views of that society. What's truly evil in a world with no society?

No, the ideas are the same. Are the Enclave evil? By saying they aren't evil because they aren't real makes this whole topic pointless. Values don't change. Even though they aren't real, are their actions evil? You can't have different values for the same actions just because they may exist or not. :confused:

But then again, we are in the line of the Fallout Universe where pretty much show that the Enclave pretty much on the side of evil, either they are presented that way, or their action speak louder then their word, or both.

In their universe, its Evil. We don't have to go along the line and say "Everyone one is not evil because its just a game!"

Read my edit.

no one is evil, its just that people associate the enclave with evil(blasted karma system) their plans are no different from anyone elses: get rid of radiation and save the world from the world. but who gets in the way?

I still don't get it. I am one person with one set of values. This whole argument makes no sense at all if we are not measuring them by our values.