From what ive seen the Enclave is Evil. They may fight for something good, but its not the goal that defines what you are its how you achieve it, and since the Enclave is completely willing to kill all who stand in their way without a second thought... then yes they are evil. Though they have cool toys that i LOVE turning on them.

Though the whole president thing was a pretty neat twist. I dont know how to cover text in them neat black boxes so i wont say anything.

The way they are portrayed in-game, they are almost irrefutably evil. They have almost the exact same ideals as Hitler and the Nazi Party (in that they are trying to cleanse the world and create a "pure race"). I don't believe they should have been portrayed like that, but they are certainly presented as the bad guys in-game.

Nope. I'm an Ashur supporter so I can't possibly say that the Enclave are evil. They are doing everyone a favor by killing them with the FEV. Who would actually want to live in the wasteland anyway.

One might say everyone in the game is evil, not just the 'powers' of the wasteland, because everyone goes around killing people. The Enclave get targeted as being 'evil' because they are a large force going around killing people, not just one person doing it.

Apart from the scale of killing, the Enclave killing those in their way is no different to the teenage vault 101 kid doing the same.

Not if that teenage vault 101 kid is only killing murderers. The Enclave are supposed to be the U.S. government. The U.S.was founded on the principle that all humans are free and are owned by no one, that all are equal. If wastelanders wanted to die, they would kill themselves. The Enclave has no business in murdering people. I consider all murderers evil, and the Enclave are no different. They are murdering madmen that are just as crazy as any other murderers, believing that they know what is right for people and acting as if they rightfully own people and can do what they want with them. That makes them no different than any other murderers.

The difference being that the LW potentially is a "live and let live" type while the Enclave are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaqcGat1WUI.

People tend to not like being deemed unworthy of survival. And if they have the will and the guns... lo and behold, they resist.

Strictly from a Darwinian perspective... the Enclave are ill-suited to the wastes compared to the rest, being "pure" humans. They do not have the adaptations that wasteland humans have acquired to the environment. "Pure" is entirely a subjective standpoint when it comes to genetics and evolution.

So if you get down to it... the Enclave needs to be eradicated on that basis, but Ol' Bearded Chuck will take care of it... eventually. In the mean time... we have their reality-detatched ideology to contend with (read my sig) as well as their propensity to not only use biological weapons, but to use the very bio-weapon that has caused a great many of the mutations they detest.

I can't believe that almost half of the people who voted her don't believe that the Enclave is evil, not even slightly. There is a difference between liking the Enclave as antagonists and actually believe they are good. Are those of you who voted no and tried to justify the Enclave's actions serious?

"Evil" is entirely subjective. I would call them more along the lines of ideologically screwed up. And given the military power they command (or used to, after BS), this is a very bad thing.

Malignant, yes. Evil, no.

Then what is your definition of evil?

The cause of whatever you're against, if you want answers. Entirely subjective if you prefer questions.

In any case, if I subscribe to the former, then the Enclave are "evil" since I find their cause abhorrent, an antithesis of everything the nation they claim to represent once stood for.

....
The irony of this sentence cannot possibly have escaped you.

I dunno, at least twice, I heard the following term:



And this term come from two people that done something along the of line of "morally wrong" and easily seen as an evil act by many, many people.

Its a given fact that many killing were involve everywhere. In the Lone Wanderer case, its just self-defense (unless ya like running away or take the beating of a lifetime). Killing-wise, the intention of the Enclave is killing anyone that is not "pure" in their definition. If anyone get in their way of their goal, they are dead.

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another.

Seeing as there's no law in RaiderLand... there is no such thing as murder there. So you either run or hide in hopes they don't kill you for fun, or you give them a taste of their own medicine.

So this is what happens when Bethesda screws up on the factions...

The Brotherhood are seen as they knights in shining armor, when they are really a bunch of girlscouts. The Enclave is seen as some sort of evil force that comes from the very depths of hell. Oh Bethesda, you make me laugh.

I don't think they wrote them that way at all. Remember the Outcasts? We have ideological opponents to the Bros in the actual game. And the Outcasts are right... Lyons did stray from their original objective. Lyons is also right: the Outcasts aren't thinking for themselves.

Even in the Enclave isn't straight "evil": we have Autumn, who despite his ideological detatchment from reality ("We are nearly victorious even though the Enemy is at the gates with their nigh-invincible giant freaking warbot!") and unsoldierly methods (Killing unarmed civilians, anyone?) still had enough common sense to see the madness in Eden's bio-weapon plan.

So please, think before you BethBash.

In Fallout 2 they were an evil force from hell. They could fight in that one, but they were just as evil and hated all mutations just as much.

Eh, what? If anything from past experience I learn from, its that the one group that runs by Lyons should be the one being label the "Outcast", or at least, something other then the Brotherhood of Steel for not following their original objective. The way they even portray the Outcasts pretty much make ya want to hate them by over exaggerating their relation to the local (which if that the case, the Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel would have that kind of snobbish remarks as well). But they did not. The Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel would be portray as the "good guys" and "good guys" don't make snobbish remark on the locals.

I consider the enclave evil because a does not have rational thinking like a human being. And I think they are stupid to have John Henry Eden as a leader. Fallout2 enclave was evil also and they were led by people which made me believe that people in the encalve that support their leader's views are just as evil and I what i call a group of blind followers. The encalve always seem to have the same objective in mind wipe out anybody that is not pure, who is to say who is allowed to live or die because they are not pure human. Although I think fallout2 did a better job at making the enclave as an enemy, they kidnap the entire tribe, the characters family and way of life which was something more worth fighting for than compared to fallout3 I don't like the enclave because the bother of steel doesn't. I just did not feel the hatred for the enclave as I did in fallout2. I mean honestly .

You know, this made me think about something I stumbled across today. I was browsing through the internet(s) -as a Metro in her native habitat is wont to do- when I somehow found myself reading about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment.
I remember reading about this a couple of years back during my Psych classes in college. Dunno about you, but I always thought it was fascinating.

Ahem. Thread derailing complete. >.>
What were we talking about again?

We were talking about peanuts and how very delicious they are.

But ya, I quite aware that the Enclave soldiers are following orders, but my mentality is this: if they intend to kill me in a firefight because they are following orders, I might as well defense myself and shoot back/runaway. That alone is a reason why I did not sack Navarro in California (they thought I was a new recruit) and

That is vey interesting

Thats exactly what I had in mind when I was referring to the enclave as a bunch of blind followers. The correct term is blind obedience not blind followers thats what I was trying to think of in my previous post.

Anyone who has to burn people and is willing to shoot innocent people are evil and deserve a most painful death. no matter how pure they're intentions. I can understand (to a extent) soldiers doing evil deeds when ordered, but the commanding officers deserve to be made near invincible, chained up, and shot multiple times with a fatman.

Blind obedience, or blind fervor?

There is no such a thing as evil. There is only our goals and their goals.
But yes, the Enclave does many bad things. However, they got the balls and the guns to actually achieve something, even if it's bad. The so-called "good guys" always had to rely on plot devices.
Hell, even Master's mutants did better than the BoS. I'd support them if they didn't have the fertility issue.

They haven't achieved anything, except killing.