enclave evil

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:13 am

i am wandering if enclave is realy 100% evil i just want to know
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:52 am

of course not :bowdown: :chaos:
what they are after, is not evil,
there methods however...
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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:53 pm

No; they are rebuilding America. Sure, some of their methods are questionable, but at least they're getting something down.

And now I wait for Pistolero's response, which will explain what I mean in great detail.
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Samantha Mitchell
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:25 am

Well I can tell you the first and original Enclave were evil monsters. I can't say excatly for the ones on the east coast expescilly because a computer can't be evil. I'm cornal Agustus just wanted to purify the water and make the Enclave strong in some ways with the people of the wastes.

I mean the main enclave purpose is evil but that has been worn down now.
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Dina Boudreau
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:56 am

Good intentions, questionable means. But not fully evil.
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Chris Jones
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:35 pm

No; they are rebuilding America. Sure, some of their methods are questionable, but at least they're getting something down.

And now I wait for Pistolero's response, which will explain what I mean in great detail.

Not really, the Enclave to consider themselves the 'true' Americans, wasters aren't. The Enclave help The Enclave, plain and simple.
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Jessica Thomson
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:11 am

No, of course not.
More specifically, it depends on which Enclave you're talking about: the one in Fallout 3, or the original.
Even then, the answer is still 'no'. This is a world of gray and gray morality, remember: no organization is purely good or purely evil.
And it is evolving- for a good example of how the Enclave has changed from what it was originally, look at the dichotomy of President Eden, who represents the 'old' Enclave, and Colonel Autumn, who represents the 'new'.

I will give you that the original organization was made up of a bunch of right [censored]s, interspersed with a few bright rays of hope. >.>
Originally, the Enclave was out to preserve itself and everyone else = pretty much screwed.
As stated above, the "new" Enclave -or at least, the human face of it- seems to think this is extremist bullcrap. (To wit, Autumn's outright refusal to
Spoiler
insert FEV into Project Purity.
)

Ah damn. I'm making a hash of my explanations again, aren't I?
Eloquence, why hast thou forsaken meeeee? ;3;
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Nice one
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:52 pm

The Original Enclave and their intention were dikes. There is no doubt about. If they have a nuclear bomb, they would use it in a heartbeat and clear the land from impurity rather then relying on creating a destructive FEV virus and send it in the jetstream. In their view, anyone not pure like the Enclave will die.

The "New" Enclave, lead by Colonel Autumn, is a bit questionable as to their intention and a lesser "evil" then the predecessor, but I assume along the line they want to rule the Wasteland under their flag. Even then, its still questionable in their intention and I would not be surprise if its still follow some aspect from their predecessor.
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Mizz.Jayy
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:49 am

No, they are not evil. Their goals are good, although their intentions are neutral.
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Chloe Lou
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:07 am

No, they are not evil. Their goals are good, although their intentions are neutral.

Yes, well, the road to Hell is paved with neutral intentions, no?
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Sian Ennis
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:17 am

Kinda. Most of them fight for a good goal, but in a horribly wrong way.
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cutiecute
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:09 pm

ok so most of u think thet enclave has good intentions but there methods arent am i correct
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Georgia Fullalove
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:09 pm

Of course they're evil. They don't care about anyone except themselves (rebuilding America for THEM), they regard others as sub-human or even as objects (much like our own real life governments, eh?).

And any of you who vote "No", remember that the government was the reason why the world went to Hell in the first place. Alright, now I'm in the mood to slaughter some of those fools. Good thing I'm starting Broken Steel today.
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vanuza
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:28 am

ok so most of u think thet enclave has good intentions but there methods arent am i correct

Precisely.
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Yvonne
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:33 pm

They want to rebuild america by way of murder. Don't care if people say their "goal" is good. An America built on worshipping their government isn't a good goal. Their methods are evil. Their goals are evil. The enclave is pure evil.
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Stacy Hope
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:14 am

My view is perhaps a little biased but im Canadian, and seeing a group out for genocide of people they consider inferior and at the same time talk all about that god bless the united states stuff when they really dont have the common man in mind.

Makes me not really like them at all, Maybe I just find that Patriotic american stuff really boring when really they are no better than anyone else.
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Epul Kedah
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:19 am

all of this is pretty much spoilers... i'll just put it in tags to be legal

Spoiler
well... the enclave, they are a faction, like the CIA, FBI, only they were a little more secret, and made for the purpose of life after the nukes(kinda futile anyway, food was running out, oil was gone) the enclave had their own pet projects, FEV was one of em. much like the presidental fallout shelters of the 50's/60's they had plenty of supplies and facilities ready for the war. they had the last oil well in the world under their control.(fallout 2)

at bout 2077 the vaults were made(funded by us government/enclave) the real plan was to move america to another planet(san franisco shuttle)
the enclave oil rig had machines that watched all of the vaults(how do you think they could so easily find the vaults?)

after the enclave came from their vault to look around, they came up with the idea of using the FEV they found from mariposa, they developed frank horrigan from it. luckily(sadly) the world wasnt completely purified by the west coast enclave. their intention was good, purify all creatures that had radiation, the flaw is that humanity(which came from their own vaults) was the main creature that had to be tamed(ghouls, super mutants, raiders, and wasters)

with those dudes wasted, the east coast systems were already in motion, with samples of FEV already developed(remember it was made to kill the chinese?) the east coast enclave also developed the advanced power armor mk 2, only it was made differently with differences in equipment on different coasts. their intentions were the same, but with the west coast failure, the enclave computer became self aware. autumn was gonna do a coup, but the wanderer got in the way, and the circumstances involving the purifier complicated things.(what made things more complicated was that their own vaults denied to give them assistance, vault 101 was the only functioning vault, and it denied to give assistance to the government.) the purifier was the only way the enclave could go through with their plan, it had good intentions, but then humanity got in the way, autumn saw the plan as overkill(defies logic, he shouldve seen it on a larger scale)

the clash between autumn and eden is definitely one heck of a plot of its own, autumns plan to kill eden was a military coup in the making(it almost happened, but then the lone wanderer got in the way, if the wanderer died, eden wouldnt be able to use FEV and autumn would most likely haved killed it/him)

after the destruction of raven rock, the enclave as a whole was torn apart, but could still work. (still dont know why they didnt nuke the citadel there and then...) the last line they formed was to stop the brotherhood of steel from reclaiming the purifier, although they didnt have the FEV, the best they could do is try and get it to work, while still trying to hold off the brotherhood. their intentions were pure. they had been denied any assistance from the surrounding area so they took matters into their own hands. after losing the purifier, you could imagine how mad they would be that their own kind were not only denying help to them, but that they were killing them, the several payloads of orbital missles that they had served as the perfect thing to even things out.

the missles they had demolished the brotherhoods best weapon, but the enclave had lost yet another base. with the mobile base, they brought out the big guns(enclave forces were now out in full force trying to stop the rebellion, hellfire troops, vertibirds, and sigma squad were everywhere, but they still failed because of the lone wanderer.) with the brotherhood rooting out their bases, their main intention was be rid of the infection so they could continue cleaning up, course they failed, or did they?

either way, they had gray choices, you cant say they didnt, but humanity got in the way of logic.




@arkady they really didnt have much of a choice, humanity was too irradiated and had become a monster that attacked them on site, the experiments of the vaults had failed, every option was failing around them, they had not seen the work of the master coming, they had no idea ghoul radiation was that widespread(which does bring up the fact that people did ignore warning sirens to enter vaults) FEV was rampant and there were machines working against thier plans. they needed something and needed it done quick. there was really no options left.
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NIloufar Emporio
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:57 am

My view is perhaps a little biased but im Canadian, and seeing a group out for genocide of people they consider inferior and at the same time talk all about that god bless the united states stuff when they really dont have the common man in mind.

Makes me not really like them at all, Maybe I just find that Patriotic american stuff really boring when really they are no better than anyone else.


I guess many of us non-american are thinking the same. There are alternatives to the Enclave in the DC Waste, and I dont see the charm of the US constitution (?).

With respect for the importance of American Revolution 1779 (?), thats 230 years ago. isnt it time you upgraded? :deal:
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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:38 am

...You know, Americans aren't the only ones with ridiculous patriotic fervor. >.>

Spoiler
Doesn't stop me from wanting to punch my own country in the throat sometimes, though.
*shiftyeyes*

And while the Constitution could use an 'upgrade', as you put it, from time to time... believe me when I tell you there are miles of red tape to slog through in order to change even one small thing.
*AHEM*

Anyway, I'm off-topic again.
I suppose when it comes right down to it, I see the Enclave as a morally gray (though admittedly darker than most) organization in the process of a major transition.
They have the potential to be a very powerful force, either toward restoring or unifying the Capitol Wasteland*... but through poor communication, differences of opinion, one punk kid slaughtering their troops, and a diminishing pool of resources (and safe havens), that potential cannot and will not become something more.




*-I'd say 'the country', but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
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Monique Cameron
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:28 am

i am wandering if enclave is realy 100% evil i just want to know


i'd say yes but thats just from my experiance and understnding, you do not know what you have just unleashed with this thread evy now and then one will pop up and there is always some intresting debates,comments/posts
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lexy
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:38 am

They want to rebuild america by way of murder. Don't care if people say their "goal" is good. An America built on worshipping their government isn't a good goal. Their methods are evil. Their goals are evil. The enclave is pure evil.


wow well said!
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Rob Davidson
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:36 pm

yes, the Enclave is evil.
what they are fighting fo is good, the way the are trying to achive it is bad.
it dosnt matter what you are trying to do, it matters what you have done. and what they've done is very bad, defenitly not neutral(from my perspective)
what i see is the Enclave trying to kill anyone that is not one of them, they see it as, everyone besides them, are not pure and therefor must die. now, it may just be me but that dosnt seem very right, dose it?
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vanuza
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:51 pm

As many of you said before, why I can't deem the Fallout 3 Enclave "Evil" is because they are very very divided. I believe some of them are indeed heartless murderers, who whould kill anyone with even the slightest mutation on a whim. But I'm pretty sure not all of them are that way, there is a lot of evidence supporting that.

In FO2 they were they were 100% Evil, yes.
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Rachell Katherine
 
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Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:52 pm

I don't look at things as black or white, and morality can be particularly vague.

However the Enclave has no problems killing people who stand in their way even when those people are trying to better the wasteland as well - I have a difficult time believing that can be excused. You can't simply say that the ends justify the means, or that their intention to rebuild the country allows them to take any action they deem necissary. While some of their intentions are noble I feel that actions speak louder than words and in this regard the Enclave is hardly "good."

Spoiler
Even if I considered this points debatable the President's plan to wipe out those he deemed unwanted is particularly atrocious.

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Marie
 
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Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:26 am

I don't look at things as black or white, and morality can be particularly vague.

However the Enclave has no problems killing people who stand in their way even when those people are trying to better the wasteland as well - I have a difficult time believing that can be excused. You can't simply say that the ends justify the means, or that their intention to rebuild the country allows them to take any action they deem necissary. While some of their intentions are noble I feel that actions speak louder than words and in this regard the Enclave is hardly "good."

Spoiler
Even if I considered this points debatable the President's plan to wipe out those he deemed unwanted is particularly atrocious.


I agree with this.

I believe they are evil due to their actions and so I voted yes.
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Hayley O'Gara
 
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