I was just reading over the Wiki about the Enclave, and saw that it mentions the President, and high Enclave officials dispersing across the world. So I was thinking, could there be smaller Enclave secular groups, with no contact with the Enclave in the US? So maybe the Enclave is just finished in the US, unless they have a firm hold in the Southern States or something. But it was just something I was thinking about, and wanted all your opinions on it?

Could there be smaller Enclave secular groups somewhere in Mexico or South America? I think it's possible, but their abilities are probably very limited to their environment?

"Secular"? What do you mean? Secular means non-ecclesiastical, i.e. "not of the church" or more generally "not religious". I can't really make out what you mean by secular Enclave groups. The Enclave is a secular organization.

Secular does not always have a religious connotation. It also means to break away from, as in the other smaller secular Enclave groups are not apart of the main Enclave force in the US. They do their own thing, maybe?

Hm... I would like to say that I learn something new every day, but I am just not sure I can agree with what you're saying. I am a native speaker, and I am highly educated, and I have never heard that definition of the word secular before. Furthermore, just to make sure I didn't embarass myself before I replied, I looked it up in my trusty Webster's. Here's what I got:

Main Entry: sec?u?lar
Pronunciation: \ˈse-kyə-lər\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French seculer, from Late Latin saecularis, from saeculum the present world, from Latin, generation, age, century, world; akin to Welsh hoedl lifetime
Date: 14th century
1 a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal b : not overtly or specifically religious c : not ecclesiastical or clerical
2 : not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically : of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation
3 a : occurring once in an age or a century b : existing or continuing through ages or centuries c : of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration

It says nothing whatsoever about secular meaning separate from anything other than religion. I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source in the world, but the article on that site does not mention that definition either.

In any case, as for the subject at hand, yes, I think there could be several, separate, autonomous Enclaves around, but I would imagine these were limited to the former U.S., perhaps including annexed Canada. I don't think it is all that plausible for the Enclave to be present outside North America.

Cheers,

Max

You do realize there are secular organizations of the Brotherhood of Steel right? Such as the D.C. Brotherhood, and Midwestern BOS. Neither follow the Western Brotherhood, but do follow the basic laws already set in the organization. Anyway, back to the Enclave. Here is the wiki page for the Enclave, read the Origin.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Enclave

Yes... now I am not sure what we are debating... the meaning of the word "secular" or the Brotherhood of Steel or the Enclave or what? If we are still discussing the meaning of the word "secular," and you opine that it can mean separate or autonomous, I would like to see a quote on that. I have just listed a dictionary entry that did not support your assertation, so if I am to learn something new today, you'll have to tell where I can find this definition of secular that I have never encountered before.

If it is not what we are discussing, then I am afraid I don't understand your reference to the Brotherhood of Steel. Yes, there are separate chapters of the Brotherhood. What is the point?

Cheers,

Max

My original question had nothing to do with the word "secular" in the first place. I was asking, if anyone thinks that there are other Enclave groups in the world, and not just in the United States. Look at the link I provided, and read the Origin of the Enclave.

1. denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis : secular buildings | secular moral theory. Contrasted with sacred .

And there is your quote. Happy to learn something now. Let's keep it on the Enclave rather than a word please.

Yes, let's keep it on the Enclave, after this one teeny, tiny thing. I didn't learn anything, as the quote you gave supported what I have been saying all along. Your quote states that secular means (and now I am quoting directly from your post) "denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis : secular buildings | secular moral theory. Contrasted with sacred"

In what way does that quote say that secular can mean anything other than non-ecclesiastical or non-religious? It's okay to admit that you are wrong once in a while, you know.

I'll leave it be now, as I get the feeling that we are speaking past each other, but I must admit I am very puzzled that you suppose that the quote you posted should support your definition of secular.

What exactly is the original poster attempting to ask?

It doesn't even matter anymore. This should be locked soon?

Are there members of the enclave, that arent in the main enclave organisation? (I think)

Maybe reading this would help? But my question, it doesn't matter anymore. :snoring:

I'm puzzled as well. Do you mean to ask if the Mexican or South American governments had Enclaves of their own (as in shadow-governments aming to rebuild their respective countries after the nuclear holocaust), or if *THE* Enclave flew to Mexico and SA after the Oil Rig was destroyed? Or that you think that the American Enclave (like the original Brotherhood, in contrast with the more pragmatical and secular DC BoS) was too "religious" in the sense that they were fanatically worshiping the pre-war America, and that maybe other countries' Enclaves were more secular and therefore more adaptable?

No he's says that the Enclave Pre-war spread out across the the world. so he wants to know how other peolpe feel about the possiblity of there being other Enclave forces in other countries.

Okay, guys, look at definition: not belonging to a religious order. His use of secular, at least as far as I can understand is an allusion to just being separated from the main body, which is exactly what he was asking. Even if he used it incorrectly, the meaning should be fairly obvious, and I also seem to recall that it's against the rules to become spelling/grammar police, but I might have imagined that.

What he's asking is, despite what has happened to the Enclave in DC and the US, is it possible that there are groups that aren't in communication with the Enclave in the US, or even just DC, that might still be active?

Both are correct. Did the Enclave that fled across the globe, begin their own Enclave organization; separate from the Enclave in the US and D.C.?

The different groups would of become thoroughly speciated without ongoing contact

I apologize for my pedantry and my near-derailing of this thread. It won't happen again, and I shall steer clear of this thread from now on.
That being said, I would like to clarify that it was not my intention playing "spelling/grammar" police, as you put it (and that would be "semantics police" in this case, but I digress).

I sincerely did not know what the OP meant, and I merely asked for clarification. Instead I got a highly dubious claim that "secular" could also mean "separate" in a very general sense. I suppose I should have left it there, but I didn't, and for that I apologize.

I'll let you go back to discussing autonomous (which I suppose is the word the OP was looking for) Enclaves.

Sincerely,

Max

This.

Without contact, would they still be the enclave. It's more likely that they would become an entity on their own, perhaps even forgoing the principles and the name.

Regardless, I would hope not. I'd like the Enclave to be mostly done now.

If we accept that the only known Enclave survival shelter was indeed the oil rig, then I don't think there is enough members left to form any credible organisation...

But in the Wiki, it states the Enclave dispersed across the globe. So they could have/are holding up what they think to be the American Enclave, not knowing of the actual American Enclave? The Oil Rig just ruined the American Enclave, but if there is an Enclave dispersed across the globe, the Oil Rig would have been nothing. Just a dent in the American Enclave.

What of Raven Rock? I'd think it's safe to say that the Enclave planned things better than to just put their eggs in a handful of baskets. As even evidenced by Broken Steel, they even have bases that can be rolled in in case of a calamity.

Raven Rock was where the survivors went after the destruction of Oil Rig. It wasn't actively used by anyone other than Eden himself before that.

Also, that mobile crawler was a scavanged NASA-esque crawler, used to transport rockets from where they were built to the launchpad. NASA only has two of those things, and they've been used since the Apollo program; I wouldn't be surprized if the Enclave only had that one.

Personally I agree all eggs in one basket is a bad idea.... But the evidence in the games is that the oil rig was the only wartime shelter.