The BoS in Fallout Tactics came across pre-war bunkers and used them. It is also what the BoS do in all Fallout games. They go out and find pre-war bases and use them. I have a feeling that is what the Enclave remnants did. Sure it is possible they went out, found it and got it working long ago but I bet they simply came across it. Those old timers still know what they are doing when it comes to tech, they could have fixed it up.

Pre-War American tech and Pre-War Enclave tech I am guessing would be very simpler, only the Enlcave tech would be about 164 years more advanced.

There is a difference from small little bunkers in the desert and large Navarro size bases. If such an Enclave purpose built base was around they would have gone to that, not some small bunker in the Mojave.

I am not against coming across pre-war American tech or even some abandoned Enclave bunkers that were used by the Enclave on their way to DC. I am not against coming across more bunkers or pre-war military based used by Enclave Remnants, just as long as they are ex-Enclave doing their own thing.

Again, I think it a slim chance to get lucky and hope you find a bunker, that, amazingly, can fit a vert. When you are on the run, you want a plan, not hope for random chance.

Who knows what the Enclave plans were when they evacuated Navarro. They could of all had orders to go where they went, etc. If there was a decent sized bunker, maybe it wasn't big enough for all the survivors, so, some were told go there and you go there, and you go over there.

I wouldn't think the Enclave had some huge fortress, but I could see bunkers of varying size, up to maybe as big as Hidden Valley. I would also think that most facilities would be more north.

Enclave has time to prepare. NCR isn't sending an army anytime soon after FO2.

But, that is how you perform ops. You setup a base, and perform ops from there. Some, would be temporary. Others permanent.

And yes, I was saying Enclave would do the exact same thing BoS does, using Tactics as a perfect example how you conduct ops. Both groups take advantage of pre-war facilities.

I am not shooting down your idea (for once lol) I just think it is more likely that the remnants simply came across the bunker and used it.

I doubt they were simply wandering around and found it. I have a feeling they had some idea what was there based on pre-war records. If the Brotherhood of Steel can find large maps with pre-war vaults and bunkes on it, why can't the Enclave? If anything they would have records of such places like in the Mojave. Chances are given all that has happened to them their info would be fragmented but still enough for them to go "looks like there could be a bunker here."

Since Vertibirds were proto-types before the War, one would think there would have been bunkers built for their testing and refueling. It is also possible the bunker in the Mojave was built to suit the needs of many aircraft such as harrier type aircraft and helicopters and therefore Vertibirds as well.

One thing I think we can both agree on, is that we would like to find information in future games that will finally settle alot of the things the Fallout fanbases has been debating for years when it comes to the Enclave. It would take away some of the mystery but it would finally settle things that need to be settled IMO.

Well, obviously the Enclave's intel is not very good, because there are several places in game that I would say would be high priority to either Enclave or BoS.

Sierra Depot a prime example.

Now, what do we know for a fact the Enclave does? They raid/pillage pre-war facilities for technology. They research and make improvements to tech. And they do this covertly.

What did the Enclave NOT do? They did not directly engage entities in the wasteland in open warfare.

How would they achieve these goals? Well, it isn't very resourceful to do so from the rig or Navarro. People would eventually notice. But if you take over bunkers and use those as a base of operations, you can very well accomplish this without drawing attention.

For example, lets say a Enclave team found a research facility that had more advanced power armor prototypes. They then send this back to the rig, where Enclave scientists made improvements, and this was the birth of APA.

Or, on way east, Enclave stop at a facility they found intel on in the west. Raiding this facility they find prototypes of the armor we see them wear in FO3. This can explain why FO3 Enclave PA looks similar to MWBoS. The MWBoS also found a facility by the same pre-war corp.

I would assume if the Enclave found a fairly intact pre-war bunker, it would be hard to pass it up, especially if it was a military or research base. It could be a pain to transfer some research all the way to the rig, if it was bulky, and again could be more resourceful to research where you found it.

As far as what these places are like currently, well it depends. Some could be manned, some abandoned. But they offer up locations to recover tech, do quests, learn lore, either way.

I'd imagine that the Enclave looted as much useful tech and information they could as they moved from Navarro to Raven Rock. For them to leave people behind given how bad of shape they were in after the Rig blew up in Fallout 2, it would have to be something really worth it, or they were forced to do so.

Like Chicago for example. I like to think they are there for two reasons:

One being that their Outpost(s) was used as a relay point between Raven Rock and Navarro.

Two being the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, under General Barnaky. They don't know anything about the Enclave. They simply see the Enclave as a very advanced group that could help them. The MWBoS don't kill the Enclave and take their tech simply because it is better to have the people that built it, then spend years trying to reverse engineer it. Lets face it the Enclave's tech is so far advanced the BoS might never figure it out for themselves. They need the Enclave. So they make a deal "help us with our fight against the our enemies (MLA) or die where you stand."

The Enclave group making the move to DC faced with being wiped out make the deal. Hell they were going to stay anyways. The MWBoS provide them with labour and resources in Chicago in exchange for a little tech.

That is a workable theory, regardless what the ending of Tactics is.

I have always thought the Enclave would move out of Navarro once the rig was destroyed.

There really isn't a reason to keep the base operational with the rig gone. Not to mention your enemies know if your location. That is bad. You can't really retreat, because of the ocean. That is bad.

So, what are your options? Well obviously, a large portion went east. But, with plenty of time before enemies would engage you, why not move all important research, etc, to another location? Give your enemies the illusion that you are defending Navarro by putting up a fight. At least then your casualties will be minimal, compared to losing the entire base and all research, data, and tech.

Now, North would be the best viable option. To the south is NCR and BoS. Not too smart to relocate closer to your enemies.

Obviously some Enclave got away. You would think they would have had a plan of some sort, and not just a run for your lives scenario. I'm not suggesting there would be a huge base, but a planned withdrawl makes sense. Some die hard loyalists could have done just that.

There are a couple things make me wonder about Chicago.

Why Chicago? It isn't close enough to DC to offer support, if it is a comm relay, it is also very far from cali. So, was there something they knew about in Chicago area that made it a more ideal location than someplace else? This could be tech, a pre-war base of some kind, a Enclave base, or what? Not to mention, to the disdain of some, there could have been Enclave already there. Usually there are reasons for the behavior and actions of a group, and I imagine we will find out.

I just hope to get my hands on some juicy tech. If I'm trading for it, finding it, stealing it, or removing it from a skeletal corpse. A few holodiscs will be nice bonus.

It may have been used as a fairly large refueling depot for the Vertibirds. The MWBOS after all in tactics, used some form of organic fuel for their vehicles.

Chicago also is roughly halfway to DC.

It seems that much of their research went to Adams Air Force base, since they made eyebots and hellfire armor there. So I think that something could have been brought to Chicago, but not too much. Maybe you could find some advanced plasma rifles, or hardened APA.

If the purpose of the Chicago outpost is refueling, it seems as though they would have outposts all over the place. If they needed Navarro as a refueling base, it seems as though they would need one every 500 miles or so, which would place roughly 6 more on way from Navarro and DC.

Also, they go out of their way to go to Chicago. It could be that is the only known source of fuel, but would seem odd, how they know, that there wouldn't be others, etc. Odd, not impossible.

As far as eyebots or hellfire armor, did they bring that research with them, or work on it independently upon arrival? I would imagine both Navarro and DC working on independent projects.

FYI in regards to the Remnants Bunker:

According to the wiki, Kreger says it was a old Enclave refueling station.

So, that kind of backs up my theory that the Enclave were performing ops, and utilizing bunkers, etc for staging these ops, and when some remnants went there, knew exactly where they were going.

I guess it does. That or it was on a list of bunkers the Enclave had and he simply called it and Enclave fueling station. That or it was force of habit. Another possibility is since they see themselves as "The Government" to Kreger everything pre-war belonged to the Enclave.

We know the Enclave went as far southeast as Vault 13 and they spent alot of time at Meriposa digging it up. But those locations are still pretty far from the Las Vegas area. I am not ruling out that the Enclave sent people to scout out the area, and while there fixed up an old bunker, but it seems rather pointless. Fixed it up and then abandoned it.

From Navarro to Las Vegas is about 1,000 KM, shorter if it is a straight line.

Well, like I said in my theory, the Enclave are very similar to the BoS when it comes to pre-war tech, research, and installations. So, if they are looking for and raiding/looting/taking over these places, they will need bunkers, fuelling stations, command centers etc to perform these types of missions covertly.

So, it makes sense. And like you said with the 1000km, if I have squads performing missions at such a range, I don't want to waste resources, but have them in a more centralized position to perform the ops. Why travel 500-1000 km if I can find a bunker in the area to take over?

It definitely creates high possibility of finding more places like this, in areas we know had Enclave activity.

I agree that looting and raiding pre-war instillations has logic to it. As the Rig gets old they need parts and tech for repairs as well as when they decide "hey lets make a new power armour" and they don't have the resources for those new projects. Projects such as building Vertibirds. So they have to go scavenging for the tech and parts. As for taking over places, you know I am not a supporter of that happening before the events of Fallout 2. After Fallout 2 we have Chicago and Raven Rock that they moved into and the remnants in New Vegas found that fueling station (that we are talking about now).

I know you are against it, as are others.

I think people realize how certain things would make sense, but fight tooth and nail against some things because they don't want to keep fighting the same enemy, or want new story lines, or it conflicts with their perception of what they think happened or their vision of the future.

The ironic part, is that the game already has a super power... the NCR has become something the BoS or Enclave have not, a full fledged power, even if they are driven from the Mojave.

So, any game in western settimg, will be heavily influenced by NCR. They are so big now, it would require a war to weaken their power. A big war, probably a civil war. I have at times hoped the Enclave got their hands on nukes, and used them..

But, any faction can appear in game, weak or strong, as long as the writing is good and makes sense.

Enclave for example. Enclave just "appearing" as a major faction, would be awful. However, Enclave appearing with a actual story of survival and info on their activity pre and post FO2 = good. If it makes sense.

Which is why in my theories involving Enclave activity 2077- onward, I try to use as much canon as available and be as logical, strategic as possible.

Hopefully finding some bunkers, bases, or if in Chicago actual Enclave could give us some much needed information. And hopefully some FO2/Tactics Pulse Rifles. And Enclave combat armor. And APA mk III. And Gauss weapons. Plus I would love to sit in a chair and watch some Enclave safety videos, similar to the Vault in NV...

The thing that got me with the Enclave is why did they just stay in the rig off shore. sure being closed to the mainland helped if they needed to move but why not set up a big base on an island that you know your enemies cant get to cause you have the tech or the know how to use derlic ships to reach it. That is my issue is I am thinking it would be logical for the Enclave headquarters to be based at some place such as Pearl Harbor if it still exsists, that way if the rig was ever lost the chain of command wouldnt be disrupted as bad. But its like these people didnt know what they were doing and put everyone including their president and every high ranking offical all on the same rig. I am thinking what happens if the rig fails and self destructs or worse yet, collaspses into the ocean without warning.

Some things I just dont get about the Enclave cause it doesnt make logical sense to me. It makes zero sence to put all your government officals in one place especially a place like an oil rig floating out over the ocean.



On the topic of the Enclave being a major faction, I think that would depend on the location. Lets say the next fallout takes place at the last hold out for the Enclave, if thats Chicago that means that the Enclave would be the major faction seeing as it would be taking place around their base of operaiton. So to put it simply how major a faction is in the following Fallout games would be dependant on where the game takes place.

Bunkers, that is one thing I think should have more of. In the 50`s people were personal fallout shelter bunker crazy and I think the people just before the war would have felt the same. This would give the Enclave alot of bases to conduct operations all over the place. Given these bunkers wouldnt be huge like Ravenrock or a vault but atleast it would be some form of shelter for small groups of Enclave soldiers/officers working in the field.

Well, I agree with you there. This is why I believe there are bases on the mainland, of varying sizes. For one, the location of the rig is a poor base for land ops, and we know the Enclave were doing land ops 70 years before FO2. So, the Enclave was doing stuff before Richardson was born, and before Richardson Sr was President as well.

Yes a good point there you have, they must have done a lot off operations in the pacific and not only for the rig they must have an top of the line navy-fleet ...

I hope this was just sarcasm.
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I get what evlbstrd is saying that the Enclave would have gone out and looted and raided bases for supplies for the Rig. They had some pretty interesting projects such as building Vertibirds, Advanced Power Armours and Navarro (at least refurbishing Navarro).

So they could have sent out squads by foot to locate pre-war bunkers and bases. Then send for a Vertibirds to take loot or even repair things like the bunker the remnants had in Fallout New Vegas. This I would imagine would have been slow and tedious process. Going out all that way in foot only to find the location you were sent to find is completely destroyed.

I draw the line at the Enclave going out and founding other manned bases like Navarro. They didn't start doing things like that till after Fallout 2.

Well, we will always disagree there.

Highly doubtful, since there is no trace of any sort of Enclave naval vessel. Although the Pacific Fleet was ordered to the Oil Rig prior to the start of the great war, the ships have probably either deteriorated or been scrapped for raw metals.

I don't know, every coastal and islands based organisations normandy have some form of navy formation....
Yea so far we have not run in to many still working navy vessels but i guess that the game have bean mostly inland ...
But game vise ..... IF they in-game plot a present by the enclave in the game nothing prevents them to use enclave ships, nothing so far say they have not any navy.
And even as we think they are no more its and opening that we can run in to the remain on a enclave ship for the me to use in-game...

The Enclave doen't have a damn navy. The Enclave used Vertibirds to get from the Rig to the mainland. They had one ship and that was the Tanker PMV Valdez and they removed parts so it wouldn't work anymore. The Enclave don't have any naval yards and the Rig didn't have an ships attached to it. And the Rig was blown up anyways.

Nevermind I'll eat my words there. It's 924 km from San Fran to LV.

Was thinking from LA to LV.

Darn metric system..

But did I miss something? What was your point supposed to be about the distance?

I did talk about how Las Vegas is about 1000km from Navarro so that might be it. Given that Vertibirds can't fly that far as you theorised, they leap frog from one location to another, a bunker like in New Vegas with 500 mile ratios. To some extent. We know for sure they went as far south east as Meriposa and Vault 13 which is about half way between Navarro and Las Vegas.