Enemies that can stealth/sneak

Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:51 am

yes of course.
imagine you are in dark cave, looking for hidden treasures, then suddenly battle music starts playing. you try to look around, but there are nothing but wall caves and mushroom. you try to move forward, and you encountered a mudcrab. you kill it, and suddenly something hit you from behind. you turn back and there's nothing, but you still get hit from behind. you try to use detect life spell or light spell then suddenly a monstrous dark figure appeared. . .

That's why my current Oblivion Avatar has detect-life on at all times. She has next to no defence as a stealth mage, so it is important that I can see everybody, everywhere. :hubbahubba:
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Marina Leigh
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:59 am

I really love this idea! It has NEVER come to me before! I love the feeling of being 'just another person' . I guess a sense of vulnerability would be the best way to put it.This seems like an excellent idea that would be a wondeful step toward that sensation! :thumbsup:
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Peetay
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:53 am

Yes. I woudl also love for NPC's to spawn in vantage points and range attack me.

One thing, however. How would stealth attacks work? Would they lose the bonus if I'm looking in thier direction? Hard for the computer to tell if I've noticed them.
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Rob
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:12 am

That's a good idea. And It could work where you have to wach your back since the dark brotherhood could try to kill you. As an example.


This reminds me that there better be the dark brotherhood in skyrim.... My favorite faction.
and they are everywhere lurking in the background of society lol
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Margarita Diaz
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:15 am

I'd be great if they could work that into the AI combat system, if the NPC has a high level sneak skill they might use chameleon or invisibility and backstab you. It all depends on the advances they've made with the combat AI though.
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BaNK.RoLL
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:40 am

I remember in Fargoth's quest in Morrowind, he'd sneak over to his hidden stash in the middle of the night. It was quite disappointing that no NPC ever used sneaking again after that scripted encounter.

I've seen some people sneaking around in Oblivion. I think they were supposed to be thieves, or something such as that.
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Karine laverre
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:46 am

I actually agree. I don't think the PC should have to watch their back constantly unless they have sufficient cause. Something along the lines of: pissing off the dark brotherhood, invading a bandit filled dungeon, walking around in the dark in areas with heavy Thieves guild activity.


Yes, and after you piss off the DB they keep sending assassins after you, untill they realise you're worth more as an asset rather than a bounty ? I've always thought that simply killing someone in Oblivion would get the DB's attention was plain stupid. I mean, often it would happen accidently. Like the battle at Kvatch. One of those idiot guards gets in the way and you accidently hit the little [censored], and he drops dead. All of the sudden you're approached at night by LL who claimes you are a cold hearted murderer. Never liked this introduction to the DB.

Back to topic. I've always like this idea. Was kinda fun with MCA.
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Georgia Fullalove
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:32 am

Making them morrowind style chameleon (up to a few %), less visible, it would be cool.

But at the same time, they should not be able to sneak upon us if we sneak too. We'd probably see echother at the same time if both are sneaking around.
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Alexandra walker
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:38 am

Yes, I am all for it. I would greatly enjoy Bethesda moving for NPCs to theoretically have all the same capabilities as players, aside from obvious things, such as save scumming and obvious player ingenuity.
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Jason King
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:00 pm

The only downside to this would be being instantly killed and having to reload when you hadnt saved in awhile. Dont know about anyone else but I already feel like I have to quick save to much already and this would just make me paranoid into doing in more often ( which is I why I dislike the whole " You died , Reload " aspect of TES anymore ).

Yep. Think about it. Oh. the npcs can sneak, how wonderful, makes the game world so much more realistic, so immersive. [dies instantly, no warning, no clue as to who did it, for the fifth time, realises this isn't so much fun anymore, heads over to Nexus to find a mod to get rid of this wonderful feature]
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A Lo RIkIton'ton
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:58 am

Here is a thread I made on this a while ago. I have included a possible method for making the system work.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1173376-stealth-npcs/page__p__17318584__fromsearch__1#entry17318584

Oblivion never really had stealth based NPCs, and with good reason. It was easy to stealth attack a static NPC who had a certain awareness level and such, but we're a real person and it's much harder to figure out how to decide whether we're 'detecting' them or not. There would be a very fine line between constantly dying from stealth NPCs and never dying from them. So I've given it some thought, and I think I have, at least a primitive, solution.

Basically, all the sneak level on an NPC would do is alter the volume of his/her footsteps. When sneaking, they will not go into "battle mode (loud music)" and if they hit you it will be considered a sneak hit (oh, actually, that's the other thing their sneak skill will affect). Basically, to 'detect' them, you have to turn around so that they are within a certain radius of the centre of your view (which would be a smaller region than your default view so you don't detect them if they're in your peripheral vision) and then they will no longer get the multiplyer. They would also be designed to never really give you one hit kills (Let's just say they svck at headshots), always leaving at LEAST a tiny bit of health (though it would vary greatly how much health exactly)so that you have a chance to survive. Also, these NPCs would have to be positioned only in dungeons and quiet wilderness areas, so you can't be killed because you didn't notice one person in a busy city amongst the millions of footsteps.

What do you think?

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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:31 am

Agree then with the health bit, maybe the health you would have lost comes off stamina. Bit forced, but keeps the game going. Only problem is, in a dungeon with sneaking/backstabbing thieves, the mage with detect life just won't be challenged at all, but I suppose that's inevitable, and just tough luck for anyone else..
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Darlene Delk
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:59 pm

Agree then with the health bit, maybe the health you would have lost comes off stamina. Bit forced, but keeps the game going. Only problem is, in a dungeon with sneaking/backstabbing thieves, the mage with detect life just won't be challenged at all, but I suppose that's inevitable, and just tough luck for anyone else..


Detect lifeshould probably be a bit more costly. Not to mention that I am hopinh your magicka regen is slower in Skyrim, so you must use it more sparingly. But yeah, it will make things easier for mages, but only in that you'll be able to notice them easier. You can't see the purple glow from behind you. Maybe having a high sneak skill should have a perk to louden the footsteps of sneaking NPCs, as if you are "more adept" at noticing it while sneaking.
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Silencio
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:18 am

You can just detect them when going in 3rd person mode, since you can see behind you then.
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Emilie Joseph
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:29 am

Detect lifeshould probably be a bit more costly. Not to mention that I am hopinh your magicka regen is slower in Skyrim, so you must use it more sparingly. But yeah, it will make things easier for mages, but only in that you'll be able to notice them easier. You can't see the purple glow from behind you. Maybe having a high sneak skill should have a perk to louden the footsteps of sneaking NPCs, as if you are "more adept" at noticing it while sneaking.

Now that makes sense. Anyone who tries to be quiet will also be more attuned to listening for others. No point tiptoeing past the guards if you can't hear the servants approaching. Another way of looking at "send a thief to catch a thief."
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victoria gillis
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:10 am

there was an essential must have mod for morrowind that did just that called Horatios npc mod. it would give a chameleon effect to npcs and get them to sneak up on you. i cant describe the difference it made when i went into the darkbrotherhood headquarters in tribunal after i installed that mod. i was actually ambushed on several occasions because i didnt see them standing in some shadow or in front of a dark rock. it was awesome. i dont recall anything similar for oblivion which is a shame cause it was a great morrowind mod. im just glad that it didnt give the sneak modifier damage boost as well cause i would have been dead on a couple of occasions. :teehee:

Well as one of parts of Oblivion improvements mods I use
Reneers NPC Sneak Mod
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27732

Haldars Mods Pack
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36399

SDR - Sneaking Detection Recalibrated
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37385
Last one is best since overhaul all stealth system
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lauraa
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:59 am

I don't think it would be a sneak attack by the NPC, because we can see them as soon as they move into our vision. But unexpected appearances/attacks with damage multiplier by an enemy who had only just spawned would be good too (like in that Dungeons of Ivellon mod)
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Yes. I felt like all enemies in OB and MW was either a warrior(with a few differences in armor and weaponry) and mages. The melee combatants had one tactic: run up to you and try to bash your skull in while the mages summoned and casted offensive and deffencive spells. More diversity is good.
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Rob
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:19 am

Not a bad idea. Assassin NPC's exist in several games without breaking gameplay balance. You just have to watch your back against certain enemies which makes combat more tactical.
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Trey Johnson
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:48 am

I don't think it would be a sneak attack by the NPC, because we can see them as soon as they move into our vision. But unexpected appearances/attacks with damage multiplier by an enemy who had only just spawned would be good too (like in that Dungeons of Ivellon mod)

It is 100% possible to code certain enemy AI to only approach you from behind, or otherwise try to avoid getting into your line of sight. It is just the opposite of what they do with detecting the player; they can only see you if you are within a certain detection range and facing their eyes. So have sneaky enemies who try to go behind you and always try backstabs is not bad a concept.

The AI doesn't need to be perfect; it just needs to be good enough to keep you on your toes, to force you to look behind yourself in paranoia, and to only be able to stab you if you really got complacent. Even detect-life won't help much if they approach you from the back.
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Adrian Powers
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:00 pm

It is 100% possible to code certain enemy AI to only approach you from behind, or otherwise try to avoid getting into your line of sight. It is just the opposite of what they do with detecting the player; they can only see you if you are within a certain detection range and facing their eyes. So have sneaky enemies who try to go behind you and always try backstabs is not bad a concept.

The AI doesn't need to be perfect; it just needs to be good enough to keep you on your toes, to force you to look behind yourself in paranoia, and to only be able to stab you if you really got complacent. Even detect-life won't help much if they approach you from the back.

Not saying it isn't.. It would be awesome for them to spontaneously display the behavior as well. In my experience however, you see every single NPC before they can see you, so if you're clearing a linear dungeon, you don't LET them get behind you and they have no opportunity to flank you. So they can NEVER get behind you to stab you in the back. Whereas with a random spawn, you get ambushed from behind by an NPC who appears to vault over a wall or drop down from a hole in the ceiling.

Adding to that idea, the script spawn could create some effective moments in quests that Oblivion lacked by the mod captured perfectly.
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Chloe Mayo
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:34 pm

What I would like is to NOT hear "battle music" when the enemy spotted you, only after they made the first attack. Because in Oblivion it'l like "oh the battle music started, something's coming..." and that's annoying.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:09 am

I don't think it would be a sneak attack by the NPC, because we can see them as soon as they move into our vision. But unexpected appearances/attacks with damage multiplier by an enemy who had only just spawned would be good too (like in that Dungeons of Ivellon mod)

Adding chameleon spell effect for them is easy way make them invisible for player, fleeing from combat and hide is simple AI package with few scripts, avoiding of LOS is also not hard at all thats simple scripting and I don't know why devs still not implement such features.
Look at some mod what I post above such feature work even in Oblivion and Morrowind.
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rheanna bruining
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:43 pm

Haven't you guy's played OBLIVION??
Just last week i was standing on the roof of "Rashedas"(i believe it was), in Chorrol. I was admiring the view due to a recent purchase of a larger, better TV, when something caught my eye: a dark elf tried to sneak and pickpocket that imperial priest guy(forgot his name)...
The priest screamed and ran to hide while the pickpocket ran the other way... I saw a couple of guards suddenly appearing around the corner, before they ran after the thief on the way up to the great oak. I followed them to the square, and was rewarded with the sight of them slaughtering the poor dark elf, outside the door of the mages guild...
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Sami Blackburn
 
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Post » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:17 am

Its just really hard for the game to determine whether or not a player has noticed an npc or not, making it difficult to know to give a damage bonus.

I've always wanted stealth enemies, and I think there is great potential for it in skyrim (giant sneaky spiders?) but I just think its a tough task to program it into a game.
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Matthew Aaron Evans
 
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