In Fable the Lost chapters on the original xbox I'm playing right now...I was wondering if the enemies level up with you as you gain progress in leveling up yourself in that little green thing in the heroes building to level up as the player. I don't really enjoy enemies leveling up with me just for the only reason that somehow it seems a little out of place unless there is level up parallel between player and computer in a too great of a game like Skyrim for example. Thanks for any answers.

"I'm stronger now than I was before. Those wolves won't be a problem anymore."

*wolves annihilate player like he was level 1*

Yeah I agree. Level scaling is bad. Fortunately, Fable TLC doesn't do this.

I like level scaling where the creatures stay a static level, you just "unlock" new types as you level up. IE, the way Morrowind and Skyrim does it. It still barely makes sense within the context of the game worlds, but it gives me an incentive to gain levels (So I can experience new encounters and see cooler opponent designs).

Contrarily, I think some games do benefit from enemies powering up just as you do. I remember liking this feature in Mass Effect, since no matter how strong I got, the enemy always stood a chance at winning, and I still had incentive to level because it granted me cool new things to do in combat. But it only really works because Mass Effect is primarily a fast-paced tactical shooter where 100% of the fun is in the challenge, not in becoming god-like.

The way Oblivion and Skyrim do it. Morrowind had high level and low level creatures despite what level the player was (fixed levels). A scrib was a scrib and a Daedra was a Daedra.

Oblivion combined both, and did it poorly, IMO. Morrowind actually, contrary to what many think, does indeed have level scaling via unlocks. Around Seyda Neen, you unlock a Nix Hound encounter near the tax collector's body upon reaching level 2. He is always there once you reach that level. Likewise, the higher your level gets, you begin running into more Blighted enemies even when not in the Red Mountain region. It is true you can run into tough enemies at low levels, but this is usually because they're entirely static and hand-placed (So it will never be anything but them, like how Skyrim does the same thing) or the lowest level enemies of a certain subgroup can still whoop your ass (Daedra).

Oblivion's level scaling, like I said above, combines enemy powerups and new enemy unlocks. The problem is, all enemies changed in power according to you, which meant that you could literally beat the game at level 1 with no resistance whatsoever, or struggle through at level 30. The only incentive to level was to see the new baddies, but the fact that the old ones become so ridiculously strong was a counter-incentive.

I much prefer the way Fallout: New Vegas does it. Enemies are fixed leveled, meaning one has to pick their battles with caution.

I really enjoyed Oblivion's leveling, because it kept the fights realistic. It could get tough, but that's the point of an RPG.

I don't like coasting through a game where I'm better than the enemies, like Skyrim. What a disappointing leveling system.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I really don't like leveling systems at all.

I agree with you. The leveling system they have in Morrowind, Skyrim, and even Fallout 3 were all good and fun... Oblivion though was terrible...

I made it to like level 100 once in Oblivion and if I didn't had at least 80% magic resistance, Liches killed me in one or two hits... That is insane!

So... I really do like the leveling systems in Skyrim, Morrowind, and Fallout 3.

Also, Fable kinda doesn't have a level system. It uses a "set" system. FYI: enemies will always be the same in all areas. So the areas you go through at the start will always have the same low level enemies really.

It's nearly impossible to do it in a way that feels realistic or believable. It just feels really sketchy and lame, as if the world revolves around you. A good video game should at least give you the illusion that the world lives independently from your influence and that your personal growth doesn't affect its nature. Gay.

Exactly. I love Skyrim's scaling because let's say..I run into my first Draugr Deathlord, and he completely rips my ass apart. The game's given me a challenge to overcome, and it's one that I can overcome eventually just by gaining more experience. I can eventually fight more than one at a time!

In Oblivion, I run into my first mountain lion and, again, get my ass torn apart. Instead of being able to overcome these foes after gaining more power, they went and gained more too! It's a challenge I can never overcome unless I abuse the game mechanics to force my character to have the stats of someone of a much higher level than me (Through enchanting and fortifying, of course). And as I keep leveling, I have to keep cheesing the system because the enemies keep overcompensating. It basically..forces me to power game. That's the last thing I want to do in Elder Scrolls. I know some folks love it, and I know some enjoy the god-like enemies of high level Oblivion, but to me, it's just very stressful and makes it impossible for me to relax and roleplay like I want to.

I do agree with what you are saying but there really gotta be a balance between the natural side of things and the gaming side of things.

Natural side, the enemies gotta spawn in areas which is good for them to be in and have things realistic, like you mentioned. However, the gaming side of things has to have an effect as well to keep the game entertaining to the player... Don't want them to walk into an area that is too tough for them (when it wasn't suppose to be) or have an area too easy for them...

So really gotta have a blend. Normally the best way to have a blend is to have a variety of types of the same enemy. Like in Skyrim... "Draugr", "Restless Draugr", "Draugr Deathlord", etc. It keeps the Nordic Ruins rather realistic with the enemies but also allows the game to grow with the player and have better challenges for them later on.

Though some areas should always have weak enemies (like wolves in the wild).

Bad example. Mountain Lions don't level up with you. They keep the same stats permanently. Ogres, Minotaur Lords, Liches, Nether Liches, Gloom Wraiths, etc are some enemies that do have stats which grows with you though.

Not a fan. It completely defeats the purpose of leveling up in the first place. If you're going to add level scaling to your game you might as well remove levels altogether. Actually, I think they did this in ME2.

Same goes for diminishing returns on experience. You're already having to gain more experience to reach the next level so what's the point? If I want to kill 1000 rats to level up as opposed to 10 ogres I should have that option.

Say what? I thought mountain lions were the ultimate example of this system at work. Well, it sure as hell seemed like they did..still, my point stands.

Oh your point still stands. There is an enemy for every single group that levels up with you and even at one point, all you will get is these high level enemies (unless the spawn point only spawns a specific group).

For example, Dread Zombies and Skeleton Champions do NOT level up with you. So any time where you get a skeleton-only or zombie-only spawn point, you would get an enemy that is weak and easy to kill. However, in the normally undead spawn points you are most likely gonna get a Gloom Wraith or a Nether Lich which WILL level up with you. (Note: It is rare to get a normal Lich spawn as they are tend to be used only as the boss. Only a few dungeons in Oblivion have a chance for two or more Liches to spawn in. And this is a good thing as Liches will fight each other for the other's power).

That is a terrible system.

What they got going in Skyrim, Morrowind, and Fallout 3 are much much better systems and I strongly like them a lot.