So, this has seriously grinded on me since day 1...

I like Operatives. I like being a [censored], and sabotaging your strategies, making things difficult, and generally ruining peoples day. I'm quite good at it, infact. Nothing quite brings me that dastardly delight as when you down me, and i get you, and your buddys back with a cortex bomb, or seeing people voodoo their feet with my catltrops... Or run away with my spike grenade on your face... Or when i steal your turret, then proceed to help it kill you and your team thus destroying your entire defensive position... Or when i take your face, then run up behind your buddy and smash him in the face, only to shoot him in his face while on the ground... Ahh yes... Good times as an operative, and plenty of it to be had...

Except theres nothing for them to do...

Engineers are the hero's of brink. Every mission requires them, and they have the most objectives amongst everybody in the game. You'll spend most of your time in brink making sure the operative can do what they need to do, and hope by god that if its an NPC, they ACTUALLY do it... Either that or become the engineer your self, and complete the objective that no one else seems able to.

I dont even really care for engineers. I dont mind playing them, but i dont like it either. I particularly dont like switching from having fun by setting the enemy lines into chaos and disorder, which SHOULD (but generally doesnt) move out line forward and allow our team to proceed, to having to change to the necessary class, which is generally an engineer so that I can do THEIR job. Thats [censored]. Sorry, but not very fun for me. Sometimes i like setting up camp as an engineer, and just hide behind my turret while it and myself rip things apart while anything that tries to flank me eats a land mine... Thats fun and dandy when i care for it. Generally i prefer punching the bothersome heavy medic in the face and gunning him down on the ground... Thats way more fun...

The real gripe here, is that i feel that the engineers get all the fame and glory, and it almost gimps you to NOT have some points dumped in engineer. What i dont like the most, is that i dont feel like p really help the team with objectives, namely because there isnt enough to do. This is a very sad fact for me, as i ALWAYS go out of my way to complete objectives, but for the most part i'm just an exceedingly big distraction for the enemy team.

I agree that, not just the operative, that every class should have more objectives in each mission. The engineer does tend to be the most important role far too often.

But as for your complaint of having to switch to a class you don't want to play... well lets be honest it stems back to the AI that is just too stupid to do its job.

Engineer is not a "hero" this is not a COD game. Sre why don't you play the "hero" engineer, I'll sit back here with all my ammo and let you run dry, while my medic friends sits with me and let's you die. You play as a team, or you die.

Seems you have failed to understand this post, horribly. The work horses of any team is the engineer. Who give you armor? We do. Who buffs your guns up? We do. Who sets turrets and mines to back the enemy team of? We do. Soldier planted a bomb? We're on it. Operative hack something? We turn into a firewall. Not saying the medics, soldiers and ops aren't important, they are, very much so. But when it comes to busting ass and taking one for the team, engineers take the cake just above the medics who risk their lives to bring up back up. :wink_smile:

Absolutely agree with this. I was set on playing a solider cause it just appealed to me more but then played engineer for a mission and fell in love with it. They very much are the work horse of the group but I find if I don't have a good solider, op, or medic on the team you just don't get anything done. It is a constant struggle to even reach an objective without the proper support from all the roles. There are times I feel like I throw down my turret only to have it blow up in my face. While the AI is horrid even the online matches I've played if you have too many of one specific class you just won't get the job done. This game really does take a lot of teamplay and I think that as they work out the online lag issues you will see a wider spread as people switch to fill roles and stumble upon a class they just fall in love with.

The Operative class needs to be reviewed badly. Caltrops are weak. Sticky bombs are single target. Hack objectives are far far too few. DIsguises don't last long and only good for a single action. Map reveals aren't really necessary, and finding interrogation sources can sometimes be a pain.

Engineers on the other hand can build and repair turrets. They can have up to 2 AoE landmines active at once. Build machine gun nests. Upgrade command posts. Repair everything. Give comrades up to 31% extra damage, as well as Kevlar vest buffs.

When you're not repairing stuff Engineer is still a blast to play because when self-buffed, you can still do some serious damage.

An Operative on the other hand, better soup up a sniper rifle and find a good place to camp... if he can.

I don't know how they can fix the class at this point, but it would be nice if Splash did something, Operative just isn't balanced with the other roles at all.

From this, perhaps make Operatives the ones that disarm charges. That might help balance a bit.

I don't know, I love my operative. An of course engies do a lot, soldiers can kill fastest and medics are amazing.

They could make it so that the Operatives take care of stopping hacks, this would make more sense anyways, they should be the counter-hackers.
Likewise soldiers would not only arm charges but also disarm charges set.

I do think these items are being noticed and will hopefully be addressed in a future patch.

Engineers are awesome. It's my main class .

Not too happy about the turrets tracking, but the mines are pretty cool at stopping people dead in their tracks.

Ops have the role of capping command posts. Thats their job IMO...there are plenty of posts in each map and they really help to buff the team. Opening side doors and in general ensuing chaos on the opposing side. I think their role is just less defined in terms of objectives. Capping posts and firewalling them, along with hacking enemy turrets/spotting mines are their key objectives.

A team of ops and engi would cause havoc on the back lines, firewall and upgraded cmd posts, followed by mines and hackin def turrets.

I agree with this. It makes no sense for an engineer to "unhack" something by spraying it with their magical repair gun. If operatives can hack, they should be able to undo hacks. If soldiers can plant charges, they should be able to defuse charges. I think this would make the classes a little more even in terms of importance in completing objectives.

I kinda agree with this. The engineers do have the most objectives to complete but if it wasn't for everyone else clearing the way, reviving you and supplying you with ammo, you would never complete those objectives. I play with a group that has at least one of every type of player. I prefer medic. Some of my friends prefer soldier. We all work together so the engineer can do what he does. Personally, as a medic I have never been beaten in xp by anyone i've played with. It's a team game. Yeah, the engineer has more objectives but if everyone was an engineer, no one would get revived causing the team to lose ground and no one would have any ammo to defend the objectives. So my suggestion would be to play as a team and stop complaining about how many objectives YOU can accoumplish because it's not about you, it's about the team!!!

I personally think that when it comes to objectives, Medics get the least. There are only two maps which have an objective specifically for Medics. And those are the Aquarium with the Security escorting the hostage, and Security Tower with Resistance escorting the prisoner. And then you are only needed if the escort is dropped. Hacking comes up a bit more than that. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for that. Yeah, i didnt mean that the other classes were useless, they for sure have their places and their "moments", but as far as objectives are concerned, 90% of the time every one else is just making sure the engineer can get to their objective. Either that or the soldiers. Just saying that operatives could really use more to do. Even if its not really up there on the primary objectives, perhaps their secondary could be better. I wouldnt know how much the firewall helps, dont think i've dealt with a firewalled command post. But as far as SP is concerned, which my connection is too unstable atm to do otherwise, an operative cant really carry the team. No matter how badly you jack things up the AI wont push them enough to make even a dent. Thats another topic though...



True, but theyre also extremely good at keeping the team up and going. Theyre mission is obvious, and its blatently useful no matter how you look at it. Operatives... They gata seriously work and still wont be noticed, and might not even help in the long run... Valid point, far as objectives are concerned, (which is really the point of the topic) but Operatives feel far less contributory.

I love the idea about operatives counter hacking. I was talking to a friend about this before i posted this, and he brought up the same thing. I personally agree.

I also did some thinking...

As far as objectives go...

Engineers can:

Disarm explosives
Crack safes
Repair the bot
Repair the objective
Repair secondary objectives
Build walls
Build turret nests
Use turrets to defend objectives
Use mines to defend objectives
Upgrade command posts
Repair friendly bots
Upgrade ally guns
Give them armor
Disarm Mines

Thats what they do for the team...


Operatives:

[censored] peoples feet gently with caltrops
Sneak behind enemy lines and tear things up
hack turrets, if they can get near it
Hack objectives (like twice ever)
Hack secondary objectives (i can only recall doing this once)
Sticky people, that will shortly be taken off well before it explodes
Are particularly good at stopping carriers while under disguise
Share some relatively useless intel
point people out after staring at them forever, duno how this is even useful, if i aimed at some one that long, and STILL havnt killed them... meh...
Firewall command posts
Pretty good at capping command posts
spot mines... or just go ahead and shoot the dang things

i doubt thats all, and it IS comparing the most useful and objectively active class, to the least objectively useful... Still, side by side, the operative has marginally useful objectives, and i doubt the level of which it actually contributes to the team, which is why i gripe and come here. It probably IS too late, but perhaps they'll throw the operative a bone in some DLC, or maybe improve the effectiveness of stickies/ caltrops. I'd atleast like some cool secondary objectives that will really help the team.

Re reading, i've seen alot of people say "its a team game", but again, as an operative, i dont feel like i'm contributing to the team. I have to call into question if what i'm doing is moving the lines forward, and pushing us toward objectives... Oh, and its also worth mentioning that operatives are the only ones who cant effectivly help the team with out highly specializing in them. Every one else you can cherry pick here and there and still help a good deal, but if an operative did the same, they'd be just an extra gun and even a highly specced operative can be nullified under certain circumstances when the best they can offer is to caltrop the path (which is why i think hey need to be looked at, the caltrops should make a particular path very unappealing to go through, but i've personally never stepped on any so i dont know how bad they hurt, doesnt seem like alot)

i think soldier should have the damage buff, engineers already have so many awesome buffs and specials, and I see lots of players going eng just so they can buff their own gun.

You keep telling yourself that when you run out of ammo or need a medic to come save you. Odds are with that kind of elitist attitude, no one's coming to assist you. Also, Engineer don't set up firewalls, Operatives do, The fact that engineers have alot of objectives to complete makes them EXTREMELY vulnerable at all times, don't kid yourself. They just wait for you to start completing an objective than kill you. By stating that an Engineer is a "hero" your saying in essence that you don't need any other classes to assist you, which is pretty elitist in my book.

Engineers have way too many options. I like that I have so many options as an Engineer while I'm playing one, but when you look at how much an Engineer can do versus the other classes, it seems really unbalanced. They definitely should have spread those abilities out between all the classes instead of having the Engineer be the end all be all.

Generally we'll be rolling around as a Medic. It's cool to keep other people alive and in the action and we're totally necessary on those one or two maps where you need to protect the VIP and keep him moving.

The last mission i played (What if: chopper down mission on EASY) i wanted to be a medic because it's my fav class, i'm light and fast so i manage to heal lots op guys, i mean a lot of guys (i had like 6 pip bars to use) but no matter how many guys i healed we kept losing because all the objectives are for engineers and my npc engineers did diddly squat. at the last part when you have to stop the hack box i don't know how many people i healed (it was a huge amount) and we still lost with 20 seconds left ERGH i hate the fact that SD decided to let you fight steady for 10min and at the last minute have the enemy team go commando on your ass! i just want the ability to play a support role and still be able to win a match, i don't want to do all the work for every single game i play, it gets boring fast!
fyi i do like brink but i feel that it has to change (the ai that is)

I personally find Operative and Medic to be the most rewarding classes to play as. They suit me, I'm good with them, and I like being those classes just a little more than anything else.

I can appreciate that Engineers have their role, and in a sense, it has been put in the spotlight. A bunch of Engineers isn't going to really GET anywhere without support though - even a Heavy Engineer is a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GlassCannon when he's alone.

The only thing I have a problem with is the way the friendly AI forces players to do all the main objectives, which means I spend more time as Engineer than I'd really like to.

i sort of wish operatives could do more while in disguise - like capturing a turret for instance

True, but it doesn't deter from the fact that they will generally be the ones needed most in any given mission, while at the same time you could go a match with out a single operative and not notice. Also, their stopping power, and ability to defend is on a 1 for 1 basis, a deal better then the rest. A reason people say they're op...

I think operatives should have the de-hack objectives and crack safe objectives, and that de-hacking needs to take just as long as hacking, if not longer.

i think with cracking the safe they're cutting it open with blowtorches so there's nothing an operative can do - but i can see where they could "reroute" the hack attempts to lower the hack % - they have the EMP grenade but that's not like firewalling a command post

i'd like to see more cross-class skills like hacking turrets - like if an operative could upgrade a turret to increase its aquire time... er lower its aquire time? i think lower... - or say for instance allow it to scan behind for turrets (that's the TF2 in me talking)
they can take over control of engie turrets too

maybe there should be some type of A team B team stuff brought in - medics and assault, and engies and operatives (assault team and objective team)

and i don't see why an operative wouldn't be able to diffuse a bomb (maybe not remove but diffuse, or stop the timer until an assault got back to the bomb to rearm it at the time it was stopped at - (too hard to program as a game mechanic? i don't know code) to give an engie time enough to run over to remove the explosive))