Yeah, I kind of figured that out after realizing it was doing it to everything I interacted with.



Yes, that part is working as it should. I started seeing some actual merchant numbers when I turned off the save-game reset.

One thing I've noticed, there are a couple of merchants that were added by DLCs, the one in Wawnet Inn and the one in the Mystic Emporium. By default they both start with 2000 gold but EE starts out by reducing that, depending on what the tnoEE.max_gold is set for. Why is that?

So far I haven't encountered any 0 gold issues, and I've made it to Chorrol after spending some time in the IC. But with a reset of 1 hour, that's not really surprising. I'm glad you talked me into looking at the debug messages, it's helping me to learn how the mod actually works so I can fine-tune it to just the way I like it. I realize you had intended more of a Living Economy type mechanism, but I kind of like having the short reset. It's a good combination of the static vanilla economy with the dynamic one of Living Economy, especially with the various randomizations you've thrown in. Sometimes my merchants have a bunch of gold to buy things with, sometimes not so much. I even tried out a 90% randomization, which was kind of interesting. All in all I'm pleased with the way it's turning out, especially with Living Economy-Items thrown it. I'd really like to see take a stab at a new version of that. You could probably do some interesting things now with all the additions in OBSE.

Good

Because I don't like merchants that are so much better than others without a good reason (the 8000 gold merchant added by B&M is the worst, AFAIK). But as you noticed, this too can be controlled in the ini, with the "tnoEE.max_gold" setting. This is 1.1 by default, which means that no merchant is allowed more than 1.1 times the standard merchant gold - where standard is dependent on its mercantile skill:
<= 30: 600
30-40: (Skill - 30) * 20 + 600
>40: (Skill - 40) * 10 + 800

So with default settings of 1.1, Aurelinwae at the Mystic Emporium; added by Wizard's Tower (Skill 6, Gold 2000), will not have 2000 gold, but get its base gold capped at 600 * 1.1 = 660 gold. Of course, those 660 will be multiplied by "base_multiplier" etc. I find such merchants with so much gold and low skill to be an immersive-breaking exploit, but have no problem with others liking to have some merchants with more gold - especially with dynamic barter gold. So you can increase "tnoEE.max_gold", or set it to 0, which means no max-check.

Glad to hear that

Yes, I have started to consider how to implement this. My idea is to have each merchant type (Smith, Alchemist, etc.) and each city have individual multipliers for each item type (Weapons, Potions, etc.) - which is much the same as LE-items has. But with instead of LE's hardcoded base values (which overrides repricing from other mods, and fails to work for any mod-added items), I plan to just traverse the player's inventory just when you activate a merchant, and then read each item's current gold value, store it in a temporary array and apply the multipliers. And when you end the trade, I traverse the temporary array and reset all gold values. I will probably do the same with the merchant's inventory and his merchant chest to affect the values the merchant offers as well.

This way, I will catch all items, included those added by other mods - except items stored other (than the merchant container) chests owned by the player. But I can probably catch those too by calling "GetFirstRef 23 0" to find all containers in the merchant's cell and do the repricing on all items found in those containers (if the container is also owned by the merchant). That should catch every single item the merchant offers, AFAIK.


I'm not sure if I start working on this, or on new functions for Map Marker Overhaul after Enhanced Economy 2.1 is released (which I assume will be out within this week), but I think I have the implementation pretty well laid out.

Well I kind of agree with you here, though I think a value of 2 would be better. That would give those merchants a max gold of 1200, which is fairly common in the game. IIRC, I believe that's the value that most of the smiths get by default, so they'd be still be in line that way.



Well if you work on it, it would be great if you could set up the values so that Jensine doesn't pay more for gems etc. than Red Diamond does. There's a number of inconsistancies like that in the Items mod that just seem rather silly to me.

Minor hiccup in the mod's workings: When clicking on barter, the merchants' initial dialogue-line is cut off in the middle of speaking (I imagine by the script that runs to replace the haggle button with the details button).

Perhaps a solution is to stop the merchant from saying the initial line of barter dialogue at all, rather than to cut it off halfway. I certainly wouldn't miss the line.

Regular in-barter dialogue seems to work fine, though.

I like this mod. It works well alongside the several Tejon mods I am running. I've now not only limited my own ability to abuse the wheel-of-personality, but I've also limited the available gold in bartering as well. No more buying houses willy-nilly and bribing people without a thought! Hurray for progress!

gothemasticator

1200 is fairly common, but only for merchants with 80 in mercantile skill (there are 7 in the vanilla game). If you go to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Merchants, you'll get a listing of all merchants, their skill and their gold, and there you'll find that there are a total of 2 merchants in the entire vanilla game, that get less gold with EE when the the cap is 1.1, and that is Varel Morvayn and Daenlin. Everyone else gets their normal gold value. Most Smiths may have skill of 80, which is why they have 1200 gold.

So I think the cap at 1.1 is good, but as other settings, you can change it to what you want. I have an idea for an additional settings affecting this: minCap. This will be a value (ex 1200), that a merchant's base gold will not be reduced below. So if you set this to 1200, Morvayn and Daenlin's gold will not be reduced.

I'm not sure why she does, but will look into it. I will try to make a generic setting that works well, and makes sense, but will try to avoid special handling for special merchants.


I haven't noticed that, but I will look into it.

The dialog cut-off has happened to me even when using Gold Adjustment. But it's never bothered me. I hate merchant comments and generally take my headphones off before bartering anyway, so most of the time I never even notice it. When I do hear it I just roleplay that my character, being the hard-bitten adventurers that they are, are uncivilized and interrupt everyone they speak to. :hehe:

It happened almost all the time then, because I waited to update the barter values until the barter menu got opened, and that cut the dialog off. With Enhanced Economy, I update the barter values already in the dialog menu, so the main reason for the cut-off has been removed.

Could it be that I ran the persuasion minigame immediately prior to clicking the barter button? (I'm just beginning, so every merchant I encounter I persuade before beginning bartering.)

gothemasticator

Enhanced Economy version 2.1.1 is now uploaded


From the changelog:

Modified dialog menu script in order to make the mod more robust and to avoid the 0 gold barter bug that a few people have reported.
I hope and believe this removes the 0 gold bug, but there are a few other tweaks as well.


Added Global economy feature.
From the readme:
The global economy in Tamriel (but not in the Shivering Isles) will be affected by the Oblivion Crisis if you enable this feature. Negative factors will make mercants have less gold available and give you worse deals, while positive factors will make them have more gold and give better deals. Negative factors are assasination of the king, the attack on Kvatch and opening of random gates. Positive factors are destruction of gates and the end of the Oblivion crisis.

Each factor is a percentage value and the sum will be shown in the Details (Haggle) menu. If the sum of the factors are -10, it means that a merchant which normally has 1000 gold available now has only 900 gold. If he otherwise sold items at 150% and bought at 80%, he will now sell at 165% and buy at 72%.


Added Enchantment barter value reprising feature.
From the readme:

The value of magical equipment that are enchanted by constant effects, can get very high, especially as many mods increase the value of constant magic effects in order to make enchanting more expensive, but with the side effect that all enchanted items become much more valuable. As an example, a 4% Chameleon enchantment will increase the item's barter value by 260 (base 65 x 4 without mods), by 2240 (base 560 x 4 if using OOO) or by 12000 (base 3000 x 4 if using L.A.M.E.). On the other hand, some effects can become cheaper; a Fortify Fatigue enhcantment is reduced if using L.A.M.E.

Enhanced Economy can combat the extremely high barter values of items enchanted with constant effects - without affecting the enchantment cost at the enchantment altars. You can choose whether the barter values will be based on the vanilla values, on the current value from installed mods, or on the lowest of the two for each separate enchantment. If no enhantment-altering mods are installed, the three choices all result in prices based on vanilla values.

Choosing vanilla or lowest, will be enough to reduce the extreme barter values (The 4% chameleon ring will get its barter value reduced from 12200 (L.A.M.E.) to 460, but there are also two additional factors. First, each magic effect's value is modified by "base to the power of magicPow", where magicPow is a value between 0 and 1. Ex: 3000^0.9 = 1347, 560^0.9 = 297, thus reducing the 4% chameleon enchantment barter value to 5388 (LAME) or 1189 (OOO). Setting this to 1, means no modification (since X^1 = X). Secondly, each value is multiplied by a magicMult factor, where again 1 means no modification.

A note of caution when enabling this feature: Both the enhchantment cost values and the reduced barter values are stored in your savegame, but will be updated every time you restart your game only. So if you 1. save a game with this feature on, 2. (de)installs some plugins that change the enchantment values, 3. Start Oblivion and load the savegame - then the new values will be applied correctly. But if you then, without restarting Oblivion, reloads the savegame saved in step 1, the old values will be applied. This will automatically correct itself again the next time you restart the game though.


Added an option to install a script.xml file with "Haggle" changed to "Debug", and removed the dynamic change in-game.
If you want the "Haggle" button to display the now more correct text "Details", select this option. If not, the button remains named "Haggle".


Removed saleAdjustment modifier as it got superfluous with the optional mercantile master perk added by 2.0.1.

Rewrote the omod installation script to make installation a bit simpler.



The changed disposition should have been accounted for already when going back to the dialog menu. But anyway, check if it the cutoff is gone with the new version.

Thanks for the update; I notice that you citre LAME as example, I don't know if you are aware of others magica overhault that change more drastically enchanting cost: example Supreme Magica (this one has even OOO enchanting balance plugin).

I am fully aware that Supreme Magica, and probably others change the enchanting costs as well, it is just that LAME is the one I use (in addition to OOO). But Enhanced Economy's script is made to be 100% compatible with any mod. It does so by reading the current enchantemnt cost values every time you restart the game. Those values are kept, and whenever the enchantment menu is opened, EE restores the values back to those - thus you'll always get correct enchantment cost according to the mods you've installed.

In my new installation I choosed the value 1 for each of the two enchanting options proposed by EE. Does this mean that I have made no changes for the cost of enchanted items in the game?
I recognize I haven't fully understood these twxo steps.

It depends on what you chose for Magic effect barter base just before. If you chose "Current mods", then it means you use the value from your current mods (Supreme Magica or whatever), then you have made no changes.

However, if you chose one of the other options, you will have made changes. Let me show you with the example of Chameleon and LAME again.

Vanilla enchantment cost for Chameleon is 65 (per %), while LAME has it at 3000.

So lets say you have a ring (unenchanted value 100) that is enchanted with 4% Chameleon. In vanilla Oblivion, it will cost 4x65+100 = 360, and in LAME 4x3000+100=12100.

With Enchanced Economy, if you chose "Vanilla Oblivion" or "Lowest of the two", the ring will be worth 360 when you sell it, even though the cost for enchanting it remains 12000.

If you chose a Magic effect value exponent less than one (say 0.9), the calculation will be:
Vanilla base cost: 65^0.9 x 4 + 100 = 271.
LAME base cost: 3000^0.9 x 4 + 100 = 5488.

If you chose a Magic effect value multiplier of 0.8 and exponent 1, the calculation will be:
Vanilla base cost: 65 x 0.8 x 4 + 100 = 308
LAME base cost: 3000 x 0.8 x 4 + 100 = 9700.

If you chose a Magic effect value multiplier of 0.8 and exponent 0.9, the calculation will be:
Vanilla base cost: 65^0.9 x 0.8 x 4 + 100 = 237
LAME base cost: 3000^0.9 x 0.8 x 4 + 100 =4410.

Must spend some time to assimilate this math course and his impact in my game.
Hve choosed "Current mods", and 1, then 1. So I made no change in the game.
But I with try to learn progressively what settings are most convenient for me.

Thanks again. Awesome mod.

hey theNiceONe!
i've finally updated from goldAdjustment to EnhancedEconomy!
no more 65k bug - so no more mercantile skill bug. yay!
i've set it again to Very Hard settings, 50% removal of gold except for dialogue, misc, and sales.
keep 10% of jewelery, potions, scrolls, soul-gems.
(i use my Encumbering loot armour and weapons that prevents my player from carrying too much "loot" equipment, i've kept clothing, armour, and weapons at 100%.)

thanks for the mod!

Thanks for the Updates

Enchantment Value great to hear that you got this working, Like the savegame feature where they updates themselves has needed. Going to have to try that out. - to be lame or not that is the question?

I ran into the 0 gold bug again, and with your new version. It happened with Norbert Nelles of Nelles Quality Merchandise in Anvil. So it seems that your hunch as to the cause was wrong. Here's the console messages I recieved:

EE: Found merchant of type 9, spellseller: 0
EE: Found merchant at index 0
EE: Setting mechant gold to 0
EE: Player Merc 22, Merchant Merc 60, Disposition 71, GlobalEconomy 1.00
EE: Factorsum .047, Sell Value 58, Buy Value 157
EE: Starting barter with Norbert Nelles with 0 gold

Thanks for the report. Those two lines tells the following: EE says that you have traded with that merchant before, within the reset timer interval, and less than 2 hours ago. EE therefore doesn't touch the merchant's gold at all, but lets the gold stay at what it was when you finished last trade - which is 0 gold.

Is this correct? If so, it is intended behaviour and not a bug. If the above is not correct, can you please give tell me the situation?

Thanks

I encountered two 0-merchants one day after the last trade with the new version. Unfortunately due to the update, I forgot to set debug mode. One of them was http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Aurelinwae, she had about 1,500 gold one day before.

I bet, if I try to reproduce that one, with debug mode on - everything will be all right again. :brokencomputer:

EDIT: Reset interval is at default 72 hours.

Not good. But note that EE now writes a few debug messages if it encounters zero investment gold itself even if debug is not turned on. It is of course much better with debug on. I will of course follow this until I get it definately fixed, but I really, really need some more reports with debug set to 1 in order to find the source.

Well like DWS, I had forgotten to turn the debug messages back on. So that was actually the second contact I had made with him when the 0 gold problem occured, in less than the 12 hour reset time I now have the mod set for. I'll keep my eyes open if it happens again and let you know, but you should at least be aware that the problem still exists.

BTW, I loaded up a previous save to see whether I had traded Norbert Nelles to 0 gold the day before, but he still had about 2400 at that time. Plus at the time the 0 gold problem occured, it would have been past the 12 hour reset I have the mod set for so that couldn't have been a factor.

This time I was able to reproduce them with debug text:

http://upload.worldofplayers.de/files4/Aurelinwae.jpeg
http://upload.worldofplayers.de/files4/Rindir.jpeg

I am not sure about Rindir. It could well be that I traded him to about 0 yesterday. But Aurelinwae should have some gold left from Frostcrag Tower investments one day before. Not 100% sure as well, but some 90%.

EDIT: No shop investments so far.

Thanks. (Un-)fortunately, the debug text says exactly the same as Belanos' report - that you've traded with both merchants within the last two hours, and left them with 0 gold then. MMO will not adjust a merchant's gold if it is less than 2 hours since last visit.

If you're sure this is not correct, then we may be onto something. If so, then it means that there is something wrong with the data stored in the arrays. I will look into this part of the code and see if there is any chance of things going wrong here, and I will release a new version with some more debug output in this area, and also a simple way to reset the data for a specific merchant, in order to make the game fully playable until the bug is removed for good.

Anyway, I really appreciate help testing this. Thanks

I am sure that I have not traded within the last 2 hours. My shopping tours are usually at about 2:00 - 3:00 pm every day, only one time per merchant.

I believe I've discovered another problem with the mod, save game bloat. I was noticing that it was taking longer and longer for my games to save to disk, to the point where it was getting rather annoying. Wanting to make some changes in the ini, and not having merchants reset from a save game BTW, I disabled the mod, did a clean save, then restarted it. My save games were once again as quick as they used to be and the OBSE save game portion went from well over 300 kb down to 10.