Hello!

His money indeed changes if I wait more than 3 hours.... the flickering would be the Hassle button being replaced with the Details one? If so, its happening : )
Here comes the pictures:http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/koki373737/bassomenu.jpg and http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/koki373737/bassoaftertrade.jpg

thanks!

With flicker, I mean that after a trade, there is a possibility of you seeing a short flicker in the item list itself. It will probably be impossible to see unless the item list is very long, and the merchant has so little gold left that the trade affects the prices of each item.
But is there any flicker when the text of the Hassle Button is replaced by "Details"? I guess it may be possible to notice, especially on slower PCs.

And it looks like EE works as intended

The first image tells me the following things:
* Basso is set in the mod to have 1200 gold, and would be stuck with 1200 gold if you didn't have EE installed.
* Due to EE, last time you traded with him, he had 649 gold, but when you came back now, it had increased to 919 gold (due to trading with other customers).
* You then sold him one item for 3 gold, reducing his gold from 919 to 916.

Is this all correct? If so, EE works exactly as intended even without any patch.

If you've been hassling the merchants instead of haggling with them, it's no wonder you had to make a mod to remove that option.

Yes, all correct, great to know!

Indeed, I can see the button first appearing as "Haggle" and quickly changing to "Details". But only because I was looking for something, its very quick.

Haha! English isnt my native language and actually I didnt know both words : ) So the mix up is even funnier

I needed some time to get the joke myself

No, it isn't my native language either, but I do know the difference



Great to get confirmed for me too. This would be one of the merchants that isn't affected at all by Living Economy, but is now proven to work as intended with Enhanced Economy even though I've not tested with this mod myself.

Ok. In order to stay compatible with all different UI mods (Darn etc.), I change the name of the button after it has been drawn correctly. If anyone think it is disturbing, I can make the name change optional.

Just wanted to mention that I have now uploaded a German version of EE 2.0.1. to http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25078 It is not translated by me, and I haven't tested it, so I have no guarantees, but it is at least available for people with German versions of the game.

Great to hear work with Basso.

Work with Tamriel Travellers, no problem that I noticed so far.

Question is it possible to change the time in morning / afternoon that merchant gold goes up or down? What time of morning it set to go up by default?

I've got a bug with the dynamic barter gold. Their available gold bugs whenever I sell them something. They will initially show some value available to barter, but when I sell them something, regardless of how little it's worth, their gold jumps down by a thousand or two. Then if I exit the menu and come back, their gold shows to be the same higher value I saw before, but if I sell them something, this value will be subtracted from the lower value that it jumped down to earlier. For example, I talked with Claudette, started bartering, and she had 3088 gold available to barter. Then I sold her a Cyrodiilic brandy for 41 gold, and her available gold jumped down to 1182. I exited the barter menu, then barter again, and she shows 3088 gold once again.
I can't say for sure if this is EE's fault, because I'm pretty sure I uninstalled LE incorrectly. The readme file would lead me to a broken page, so I couldn't look up how to do it right.
I uninstalled EE after resetting the merchants' gold as instructed and tested the merchants, to see if things worked normally without the mod. Selling worked normally, Claudette would lose 15 gold when I sold her a potion worth 15 gold, and then would lose 30 gold if I sold her a potion worth 30 gold. Unfortunately, uninstalling the mod broke the barter button; trying to use it would freeze the menu, and I would have to use closeallmenus to get out of it. So it seems as if I can't play with, nor without EE without having severe bugs.
So I'm in a bit of a bind. I'd like to go back to LE and then uninstall it correctly, but can I do that at this point? I don't have any saves except one going back maybe a week that are pre-EE, will I have to use this one? Is the incorrect uninstallation of LE the problem? If I do go back to the old file, how can I uninstall LE properly?

I'll post my load order in case it's relevent.

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  ScreenEffects.esm02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.71]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b1]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]08  Armamentarium.esm09  bookplacing.esm  [Version 1]0A  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]0B  HorseCombatMaster.esm0C  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0D  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0E  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0F  DLCShiveringIsles.esp10  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]11  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp15  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  Fran Armor Add-on.esp18  Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp19  Natural_Weather_HDR_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael.esp1A  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp1B  Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp1C  WindowLightingSystem.esp1D  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp1E  aaaBorsBedrolls.esp++  Brighter_Torches.esp1F  Days&Months.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.74]20  MM_TextLocks.esp21  P1DseeYouSleep.esp22  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 2.0.1]23  Crowded Roads.esp  [Version 2.0]24  DLCHorseArmor.esp25  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]26  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]27  DLCOrrery.esp28  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]29  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]2A  DLCVileLair.esp2B  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.21]2C  P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp2D  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp2E  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2F  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]30  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]31  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.4]32  XSPipeMod.esp  [Version 1.2]33  Thieves Arsenal.esp34  DLCThievesDen.esp35  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]36  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]37  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.2]38  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.69]39  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]3A  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3B  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp3C  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3D  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3E  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp3F  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]41  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]42  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]43  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9]44  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_NoSpiders.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.7b1]46  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]47  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b1]48  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b1]49  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b1]4A  Mart's Monster Mod - Durzog Addon.esp  [Version 0.10]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 0.18]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]4C  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]4D  House On The Bluff .V2.esp  [Version .2]4E  za_bankmod.esp4F  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp50  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]51  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.2]52  DLCFrostcrag.esp53  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]54  SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp  [Version 1.2]55  Knights.esp56  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]57  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]58  Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp59  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]5A  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]5B  Birthsigns Expanded.esp  [Version 2.1.]5C  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.0]++  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp5D  Quest Award Leveling.esp5E  Quest Award Leveling - Finger of the Mountain.esp5F  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]60  RealisticFatigue.esp61  RealisticForceMedium.esp62  RealSleep.esp63  MidasSpells.esp64  Midas OscuroGems.esp65  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp66  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp67  StealthOverhaul.esp68  No psychic guards v1.2.esp69  RenGuardOverhaul.esp6A  RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp6B  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp6C  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp6D  nGCD.esp6E  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp++  nGCD Skeleton Key.esp6F  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]70  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]71  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]72  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]73  ProgressRacial.esp74  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Immediate Character Generation.esp75  Dark Dungeons.esp76  Dark Dungeons -  SI.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.74]77  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]78  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]79  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]7A  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]7B  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]++  Disable Tutorial Text.esp7C  No More Annoying Messages.esp  [Version 1.3]++  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]7D  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp7E  ScreenControls.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]7F  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

it sounds like you still have Living Economy Installed. Since there is no dynamic gold in vanilla. if you uinstalled EE and you still get this then living economy is only other mod that would do dynamic gold. So I would check to see if Living Economy is installed has it comes with Frans.

To find out this option either check the description on Frans.esm or ingame bring up the console "~" and type startquest cflemenu, If Frans.esm state living economy or console command comes back with menu option then you still have living economy installed.

You will have to reinstall frans and not choose living economy that is only way to get it removed from frans.

If you want to use Enhanced Economy that is that is what you will have to do. And you should be fine with current save, just has along has you reset all merchant back to default before uninstalling frans and reinstalling frans without le.

Alright, that sounds fine, and I feel silly now that I forgot that dynamic wasn't vanilla... Anyway, I thought I had replaced Fran's LE with the newest version, but I guess it doesn't work that way. Thanks for the help, I'll come back when I figure out whether this fixes it or not.
Edit: Everything seems to be fine, thanks for the help Corepc. And now that things are bugfree I can say that this an awesome mod and everything seems to work as it should. Killed some liches and all of their staffs disappeared, killed some amazons and only got one of their enchanted waraxes, killed some dremora and got no ridiculously expensive rings and fewer enchanted dremora swords, etc. The fixes on the things from LE are also great.

Bodevanlot: Glad to hear that you found the issue about LE installed with Frans.

Good to hear

It is hard-coded for now, but would be very easy to move to the ini file. The way it works now is that the merchant's gold is at the lowest at 6-8am, then increases until 7pm and then stays the same until 6am next morning. This is the calculated value, but since there is a random factor too, the barter gold will also vary some between 7pm and 6am too.

This was something I made up pretty fast, and appreciate any suggestions for improvements. But in any case, the three hardcoded values (6am, 8am, 7pm) can be translated to ini settings.

Great Mod. Times are pretty good for shops in cities. Most people who`ve worked in shops know that the cash is always lowest at start of the day. the only available cash is usually the `float` or top-up amount that starts each day off. They do seem a little strange in Tamriel Travellers since purchases may happen at any time out there (probably unlikely at the dark of night of course), but no complaints really.

My goal was to make the cash flow seem natural, and work with both shops with a normal opening time, and with merchants in Inns or from TT that never closes at the same time, because there's no reliable way to detect which group a merchant belongs to. And while the cash flow is tailored towards shops with a closing time, I think it will work quite well for Inns/Tamriel Travellers too. It quite natural to expect the travellers to accumulate money during the day hours, just as with normal shops.

It is different for inn owners though, I think the most realistic timing scheme there would be to have quite little money during day hours, then starting to accumulate money in the evening and continue to do so until early in the morning. I could of course check if the merchant in question was one of the many vanilla Inn owners, but I simply don't like checks that doesn't automatically work for any mod-added merchant. Also, since the Inn owners have quite little money anyway and since the random factor makes the gold fluctuate a bit, I think it works pretty well the way it is now. But I'm open for improvement suggestions.


As for future development, I have the following ideas/plans:

* Make the reset key adjustable in the ini file (done)

* Add more Boss NPCs/special items to the list of NPCs/items that are immune to item removal. To do this, I need user input. Give me exact names, or formIds + mod name of NPCs/items that should be immune.

* Add a global economy modification factor. I plan to add a global factor that both affects the merchants' available gold and their prices. So far I have the idea of making this factor dependent on the main quest. The murder of the king will set it to -5%. The opening of the first Oblivion gate add another -5%, then each new opened gate -0.5% or so, and each closed gate +1%. Finally, when the crisis is over and everyone is happy, the factor could change to +10%. Or something like that. Everything will of course be adjustable in the ini file.
This will actually be very easy to add, and gives the player one more reason to close Oblivion gates and complete the MQ, which I think is good.

* Add taxes on player-owned houses. I have an idea of requiring the player to pay local taxes to the count of each city for the house owned in that city. If you get too far behind on the payment, the house will be locked for you, and you will not access to the house or the items you've stored there until you pay the taxes.

I don't suppose it's feasible to check if the merchant has a "lock doors" ai package in order to determine when their gold should fluctuate?

I don't have much knowlede with the AI packages, but I believe this will be very difficult, and much more work than its worth.

After all, I believe the current scripting for the barter gold works quite well in giving a realistic effect. So I will probably not do much tinkering with it, at least not until any immersive-breaking problems with the current is found. But thanks for the suggestion and interest.

Okay, I thought you were actively looking for a way to differentiate 24-hour vendors from ones with a specific store schedule. Checking for a lock door package or checking for hours that they offer services was all I can think of.

But if you're happy with how you have it, then that is good. I certainly can't see any problems with your current setup.

For future developpment I have the following suggestions:

- Add special barter gold for stolen items at fence merchant.
- Barter gold merchant specialization:
MG, Alchemy merchants ... pay more gold for ingredients, potions, apparatus ... etc.
Amorer merchants pay more gold for weapons, armors, shields ... etc.
Clothes merchants pay more gold for clothes, jewelry, rings, amulets etc
General merchant (Jack of all trades) should be in the middle.
Inn keepers pays more gold for wine.

- Provide a more random and dynamic barter gold for merchants (depending on some factors, region, oblivion crisis etc).

Note. tested this mod in the last two days, work great with no flaw.

I will have a comeback in the next days for more feedback.

Nice suggestion!


Currently, there is no barter gold for fence merchant?

I like the everything adjustable in the .ini bit, although would it also be OK to include a global max/min to the modification factor (of course you probably already thought of that ).

It also might make sense to have the player pay off a steward(ess) of the count(ess) instead of the royalty itself.

Glad I could help



Thanks for the info, now I know what time of day that increase/decrease start and refresh of gold has well. Since I emptied out a traveller of all his gold early morning like 5 am and came back about a hour later and he had over 1200.

Ini settings to change this would be nice.



Yes, it does, but it work. and I am not going to complain about it.



That is alot of Boss Npcs etc in FCOM..Are you sure you want this list..Or just Vanilla ones..



I like these idea has well. It would make sense if Blacksmith would give you more for Armor and Weapons then a Merchant who only sells books, potions, spells. Etc..More stuff that LE does but this does do not yet.

I don't understand this suggestion. Can you elaborate?


I agree that the idea for this is good, but I believe it will be difficult to implement in a good way, so it's probably a bit out in the future (if ever).


If things can be implemented pretty general, i.e. without having to hardcode merchants - as that will make it incompatible with mod-added merchants - then I will look at doing such things. But I guess I need more precise ideas.

Good to hear


I didn't think of that, but global cap is a good idea.

But that was something I've already thought of


That does not sound as intended, no trader should go up from 0 to 1200 in a day, much less an hour. Are you sure it was the same traveller? EE is dependant on finding the merchant's formId in its arrays, so if the formId is new, it is a new traveller as far as EE is conserned. If it really was the same traveller, and if you can repeat this, can you please do this with debug enable in EE's ini and post the debug text here? I especially want to know if EE says that it found the traveller in its array on the second visit, and if it did, its calculation for new barter gold.

Not a problem with EE. I have not done all the debugging yet to make sure of it.

It is bug with travellers and using Advscript.esp (1.40)

With 1.40 version I added a script feature that checks when a certain package is run using onpackagestart "nameofpackage", this modifes the traveller barter gold using setbartergold based on player lvls and increase has player goes up in lvl to a certain max.

And how my script works, is pretty much everytime you talk to a traveller it switches to this package so bartergold get set to this. and end up wiping out EE changes from looks of things.

Will need to do some more testing to be sure, but, I am sure this is what is happening and what I saw. Same NPC by the way.

I may have to redesign that part of my script so that it does not check so often or try it a different way or remove this feature totally if needed. But I would like to keep this feature for those that do not use EE or LE.

Corepc

Ok, good to know, and maybe we can work out together a way for you to have this feature for non-EE/LE users while at the same time keeping it compatible with at least Enhanced Economy.

How EE basically works is this:

1. If it doesn't have any data about a merchant (first trade, or at least 96 hours [default] since last trade) it reads the merchant's current barter gold, caps it to fit with the general rule (dependant on the max_gold setting), randomizes and adjusts for time of day, and then sets the new barter gold, and stores both the old and new value with the formID of the merchant.

2. If it has data about the merchant, EE calculates barter gold change depending on time since last trade and current time of day, and adds this change to the merchant's curent barter gold.


And I guess what happened was that between 1 and 2, you had adjusted the merchant's barter gold, and EE didn't know, thus added the change to the new, high value, which is not good.

A very simple solution could be that EE doesn't add the calculated change to the merchant's current barter gold (which is changed by TT), but instead add it to EE's stored value of what the merchant had after last trade. This will completely overwrite any change TT does to the merchant in the meantime. This should be acceptable, because if it goes more than 96 hours between two trades, EE will completely wipe out the merchant's data and read its barter gold again the next time they trade - thus using TT's change then. Do you think that sounds OK?

In short, with this change to EE, the following will happen:
1. TT decides the merchants initial barter gold
2. At first trade, EE will reduce the gold if it is too high according to the merchant's skill and the max_gold setting.
3. At later trades within the reset limit of 96 hours, EE will overwrite any new TT changes to the barter gold.
4. If more than 96 hours have passed since last trade, EE will again read the barter gold, thus using any new value from TT.

Does this sound good to you?

Works for me, TT decides the bartergold based on player lvl , and EE does the rest and adjust down. Sounds like a solution to me and I would not have to rewrite my scripts either. So that is a plus, because I svck at complicated script's.