One of my favorite things to do in Fallout, is to get a nice headshot on an enemy and see their head explode. The one thing that stops me from being more effective at this (besides draw distance, obviously), is scope sway. I know if you stop and crouch it will steady, but I think there needs to be a larger element to shooter control. Holding breathe, balance mechanics, handgrips, bipods, etc. This may seem like I want it to be more like Battlefield but I disagree. I want it to have a more realistic feel. With the draw distance I hope they will be able to achieve now, I wouldn't even saw no to interchangeable scopes. Wouldn't it be amazing to put iron sights on an anti-material rifle?

The same goes for assault rifles. I believe in this title, they will push better shooter controls as the high point at E3 to try and pull people away from VATS without eliminating VATS. Its hard to line up a good shot on an enemy that is constantly (and effectively) coming at you from all angles at once. While I don't want the game to be made any easier, I feel more like a tank in Fallout then a solider. I can pack a punch, but its a slow-go to that point. I try not to rely on VATS except in circumstances where it is absolutely necessary. I love VATS for what it is and never do I think it should be eliminated, I just want to see others and my own reliance on VATS to be decreased from its current state.

I disagree... quite a lot too. I'd want more sway and recoil effects to throw the aim awry for low skill firearms character -- if, however, I manage to get a lucky shot, it should feel like a hit too (not like http://www.megaglow.com/suctionpistol.gif - it's much more rewarding to have a rarer success give a hefty punch than a more frequent not do so). I think shooting should feel pretty bad with an inept character. Once the skill is raised to high enough level, it can well work more fluidly (though still governed by the characters corresponding aptitudes - skill, perception, strength), but before that... I want to experience the characters progression in aptitude, that's quite practically impossible as things are now, and will be even more so if the gameplay is completely shooterified (not to mention how that affects the feel of the game as a whole... from a revered cult RPG to a blockbuster FPS). If "realism" must come to play, I'd rather it be that the PC is realistically inept when he is implied to be that.

And as for VATS. I'd want it to be made a more essential gameplay tool; and reformed into a tactical tool with various uses and considerations, rather than leaving it as a sort of bullet time gimmick.

well I think for the most part it was great the way it was with iron sights in NV, although at level 100 in the skill you should barely have any sway at all but you still did in NV. but I hoarded chems like Steady so in the end it didn't matter to me. Personally i'd like there to be stuff like hi tech stealth armor etc that help you with your combat abilities, like gyroscopes or something in the stealth suit that steadies your aim. or have some kind of hi tech head gear that lets you see further. something so far that I feel the Fallout series is failing to pull the trigger on, rather than just having higher tech armor meaning higher damage resistance.

I liked ironsights and weapon modifications, but they do NOT need to add FPS shooter mechanics like in games such as Battlefield or CoD. I think that a greater variety of weapons and attachments can be added without taking away from the RPG mechanics in favor of player skill.

I primarily play FPS shooters and it's what I grew up on. I regularly play games like Halo, CoD and Battlefield, but Fallout is an RPG series and as such all encounters in the game should be influenced by the character skill and NOT player skill.

-Accuracy and range of the weapon should be influenced by several factors: Weapon Skill (Gun, Energy), weapon attachments (grip, scope), Strength of PC, Perception of PC.

-Effectiveness of weapon such as movement with weapon and reload speed should be influenced by Weapons Skill and agility.

I will disagree with UnDeCaf on one matter though: weapon damage. I'm not saying a weapon should be entirely nerfed because other factors are already influencing this. What I am saying is that a weapon should have a standard damage up to a certain point, but when the PC has a skill that is high enough the damage of the weapon should be increased (slightly).

My reason for saying so is that I can reason that the damage is less because of PC accuracy or targeting. Although I am targeting a vital organ, the PC might not have the skill to effectively hit said organ and instead miss by a margin thus reducing damage of the shot.

If I'm quite honest, one thing I'd love to see in Fallout 4 would be to have it so you feel as if you're in the middle of a battle. It'd be so good to hear realistic bullets skimming over you, rockets flying past you, war cries etc. When a gun fight erupts in Fallout, the guns sound a little like peashooters.

It would be great crouching behind a wall and hear the whiz of bullets skimming over you and you think to yourself "HOLY ****!"

I'd also like to see your shots actually piercing an enemy's flesh, make it so the bullets actually do damage and so that it looks realistic and painful when somebody gets shot.

You got me all wrong. Thats exactly what I mean. What I want is to feel that progression more. I want to feel like a good shooter if my skills are appropriate.

Like I said, you guys got me wrong and I guess I didn't convey myself very well. In no way do I want Fallout to feel like Battlefield. I just want my skills to more affect my accuracy with the mods. Sorry If I wasn't clear.

The LESS FPS mechanics the better, in my humble opinion. I want more CHARACTER contribution to success and less PLAYER.

Exactly. Thats what I mean. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It should be all about how you build your character. You have bad intelligence, well you know what could happen. So on and so forth.

Personally, I'd be fine with missing shots as long as I see clear (and reasonable) sings of my character's incompetence. If he has never hold a gun in his life, I want to see how he is unable to hold the gun steady while aiming, and how he fails at trigger control. If I miss my shot under those circumstances, FINE. Now, if the guy is holding the weapon perfectly steady, and there is a nice crosshair that I position over my target's head, and yet despite all that I still miss because RNG bulls*hit, then that's frustrating.

I've no doubt the pseudo-FPS-pseudo-RPG hybrid mechanics will be half-assed and svck, this is BGS after all
And i've no doubt they'll be much more dependent on player skill than character skill, with VATS returning as an excuse for character skill.
This is BGS, after all

As i've said since Skyrim: prove me wrong BGS, i dare you!

I just want to be able to feel the difference in my character as time goes on. Of course player skill is going to play a huge role in it, but if done correctly I would like to see a more fleshed out character abilities to include other skills like medicine, repair, science. Maybe you could jury rig robots with a large science/repair skill to become friendly (not companions of course). I just want to see our skills affect more things than if we can fix a pipe with this repair skill or hack this terminal to bypass this with science.

I would like to be be able to go prone, to make me harder to hit, and reduce weapon sway. I would like to be able to hide around a corner, and shoot around it, without having to stand three feet away, else the game has me shooting the wall...... I would like it if when I have a good sight-picture, regardless of how close I am to some object, that I hit my target, not the wall/rock/whathaveyou that appears close to a foot away from my bullets trajectory......

Iron sights in NV is horrible because it actually blocks the view of the target for most guns. Unless they fix this issue, they need to leave it out. Of course, they should be able to fix it, anyway, rather than include it when it doesn't work properly for all characters/weapons.

In case there is any disagreement, note that I only play shoujo characters using the Shoujo Race mod, but that doesn't excuse a game mechanic that does not properly adjust the targeting view for child-sized characters, especially when such characters are active NPCs within the game world.

VATS is fine overall, but it needs to have improved accuracy (or perhaps more AP) because it usually misses targets, at least far too often, regardless of skill (until the PC is close to max, maybe).

In any case, FO is NOT a shooter. It is a hybrid action-RPG, but BGS really needs to stop pushing the action at the expense of the roleplaying elements. We need the opposite: more roleplaying with action outcomes based on character abilities, not twitch gameplay mechanics. There are plenty of games with the latter, so there's no need for more.

A mod lets you play in a way the devs never intended or considered.

The mod messes up an existing mechanic of the game.

Somehow, that's the game's fault instead of the mod's.

Yeah, flawless logic.

You may need that, I don't. Don't talk as if your opinions were objective truths.

I think there could be a balance of the two actually. Instead of, let's say, grips on a gun giving you better aiming it gives you a + bonus to that skill which would basically do the same thing but in a more RPG element. You could find better grips that give better skill boosts. Kind of like Dragon Age Inquisition where you could craft/loot arms and legs for armors that would give you bonus effects.

This, and it felt natural once I got used to it, remember my first gunfight in FO3, bullets went everywhere. I thought I done something wrong like used 9 mm ammo in the 10 mm gun

It improved, improved up to an level where the aim assist felt natural character was simply better at shooting than me or the gatling laser had build in targeting system. In motherhip Zeta I aimed just above the heads of the aliens as this gave headshots.

The only problem is that you can cheat the system if you have an powerful handgun and wait behind an corner. This was standard for me at low level in FO3.

I never had that Problem. Of course, some of the weapons, the sights weren't precisely accurate. My varmint rifle tended to hit high, and to the right, which got worse the further out the target was. And, just like firing a real rifle, I learned to compensate for that inaccuracy, and could hit anything I could see. (and I have view distances maxed.) Scopes didn't seem to suffer from that.

Which part though? The damage?

I said that they'd all have a standard damage up until the characters proficiency is high enough that they'd feasibly be able to target the enemy better. I dunno let's just say 75 in guns for now. At that point the character should be able to aim well enough that cheating the system wouldn't be necessary.

Of course I might be wrong on which part you meant or what I was saying so I have no problem with you pointing it out.

I just hope they leave out all this fps shooter stuff being dependent on player skill. The character's skill and build should determine everything. Some character with maxed speech, science, etc. but a neglected combat skill set shouldn't be able to fight enemies like raiders or soldiers. They should get their butt handed to them and have to work it up by training themselves instead of fighting in the field. (I don't mean training in the sense of level by doing, but by allotting skill points upon leveling).

I'd want the damage values for weapons to go back to their original form (eg. hunting rifle 8-20), and whence the skill increases, at certain intervals, the minimum goes up slightly (never enough to reach the maximum, though), but not the maximum. The delivered damage being selected randomly from between the given range and the skill level leaning it a bit towards either the higher or lower side. Eg. if a pistol has 10-20 damage and a skill requirement of 50 and your skill is 30, the damage you do is more likely to be closer to 10, but it doesn't deny delivering max damage.

This ensures that the gun, any gun, has all of it's potential open to the player from the get go and the PC's skill isn't projected to the bullets of the gun but remain as a his/her aptitude with it (with the assumption that accuracy is a thing in the game).

Oh, I got the idea that you wanted more fluid FPS gameplay experience in general. I think the game should at no point play as such, but since the game will be in first person it can make it a bit smoother for the adept characters (a position which I think should not come fast nor cheap). But anyway, we seem to be at least somewhat in line with the thought.

I would've loved it if it had felt like that to me.

In both, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, for the first times I ran them, I was quite excited to see how much the character build would actually affect the weapon proficiency -- I even deliberately made characters who would naturally miss just to see if the progression of the skill pays off. Neither, though, delivered on that in my experience since the focus was more on damage values. I'd want it done a lot more heavy handedly when it comes to accuracy.

That's actually better than what I was saying. I definitely agree here.

While I do want better gun controls, I don't want an FPS nor do I want VATS to be less important. I felt that New Vegas was on the right track and if Fallout 4 is more like that, I'll be happy.

I'm not a big shooter player, but even I can notice - when I do get a chance to try newer titles out - that the shooting in FPS games has become extremely refined and sensitive. Every weapon, and every addition/mod to every weapon, can vastly affect how it handles. There's plenty of room to feed player stats into that, so that the gunplay becomes physically affected such as with:

gun sway/accuracy

reload time

recoil

gun-jamming

range/bullet curve

ability to add certain mods to weapons

proclivity for weapon mod types such as silencers etc.

ability to move faster whilst shooting/carrying

ability to crouch/go prone

draw speed, available ammo types

amount of ammo pilfered from enemies

speed of weapon degradation

ability to repair weapons once degraded

amount of noise generated by all of the above to affect aggro

I'm tired of the bullet-sponge/shoot-them-in the-head-but-not-kill-them thing. If they don't die from a headshot, it should be because I miss, or they have armor. But as a result, missing should be more common if you have low skill levels, and ammo quantities should be vastly reduced across the board. In short, actually scoring a head-shot in the first place should be really difficult to achieve. Likewise in VATS, it should be a huge gamble to bank on.

Could you imagine what a boon it would be if they added Dishonored like lean abilities? It would make stealth so much more fun so you didn't have to risk being spotted if you just wanted to peak a corner.